AW169 Rollover
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: A very long way North
It used to be part of the RAF Puma conversion course how to learn how “drive” the aircraft forwards out of the situation where the nose wheel had accidentally become fully cocked off to the side. The first part of that recovery was to centralise the yaw pedals to avoid the aircraft rotating uncontrollably, and use the independent main wheel brakes to help stabilise and steer, rather than big bootfulls of pedal. It was important to get this right, due to the high mounted tail rotor the Puma will roll very rapidly and markedly if too much pedal is used on the ground].
Joined: May 2011
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From: NEW YORK
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
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From: still in bed
3 entire left rotation did not prompt the pilot to counteract with right pedal ? Nor down collective and close the throttle?these are memory items! BTW Leonardo why an helicopter need a wheel lock in first place?
did the pilot checked free of movements of all the controls before takeoff? maybe not. Embarrassing.
did the pilot checked free of movements of all the controls before takeoff? maybe not. Embarrassing.
The AAIU has already determined it was not the crew’s fault. The pilot was licensed and qualified by the authority and followed the published SOP to the letter, nobody to blame.
But even less seriously...looks like he wanted to taxi to the left, aircraft resisted so he tried a little harder, then remembered the nosewheel lock and when it released the aircraft spun left with full left pedal applied. This threw the pilot to the right still hanging on to the cyclic and collective. So on top of the yaw the pilot has now got the collective coming up and full right cyclic. The aircraft is truly embarrassed at the overreaction by the pilot to the initial slow left turn and rolls over in shame.
fodder for weeks to come on pprune
But even less seriously...looks like he wanted to taxi to the left, aircraft resisted so he tried a little harder, then remembered the nosewheel lock and when it released the aircraft spun left with full left pedal applied. This threw the pilot to the right still hanging on to the cyclic and collective. So on top of the yaw the pilot has now got the collective coming up and full right cyclic. The aircraft is truly embarrassed at the overreaction by the pilot to the initial slow left turn and rolls over in shame.
fodder for weeks to come on pprune
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 30th March 2021 at 04:37. Reason: Fix quote
Joined: Oct 2018
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From: monkey_do
Can only say 'Oh wow!'.
An aircraft in perfect shape, destroyed in seconds because of the nose wheel not being unlocked in time?
If this is representative of the sensitivity of helicopter flying, it explains a lot.
The question that remains is why do very wealthy people accept such low safety standards.
An aircraft in perfect shape, destroyed in seconds because of the nose wheel not being unlocked in time?
If this is representative of the sensitivity of helicopter flying, it explains a lot.
The question that remains is why do very wealthy people accept such low safety standards.
I have never flown a plane but somehow I am sure not following the RFM and SOPs is a path to wreck a perfect airplane as well.
This has nothing to do with low safety standards. Planes crash all the time as well. Already forgotten the 737 Max?
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Germany
3 entire left rotation did not prompt the pilot to counteract with right pedal ? Nor down collective and close the throttle?these are memory items! BTW Leonardo why an helicopter need a wheel lock in first place?
did the pilot checked free of movements of all the controls before takeoff? maybe not. Embarrassing.
did the pilot checked free of movements of all the controls before takeoff? maybe not. Embarrassing.
there is some information, we don’t have yet
ie who pressed the unlock switch?
Could have been without proper crew coordination and caught out the pilot by surprise (not excusing the inputs already applied and not reducing them when coming to a stop for error analysis)
You have to be 100% there to react fast enough- or you turn into a passenger in a matter of seconds.
About the need of nose wheel locks - yes, you need them, when you do a fast run on landing, ie with a tailrotor malfunction.
You can see on the accident video, how much torque could be counteracted with a locked wheel- excactly what you want in case of tailrotor emergencies.
Full and free movement of controls won’t test the nose wheel, its freely rotating - if not locked
Joined: Feb 2012
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From: LOWW
Indeed it was. Along with the other dirty little tricks that type could play on an inattentive pilot! Turmo engines without anticipators backing right off then being very slow to catch up next time they were needed, in flight Y/R divergence and “wrong pedal” takeoffs, BARALT hold dropping out below 80kts and the aircraft wanting to surreptitiously go into a descent, etc.
Even 60 years old S300Cs have peerless throttle correlators (no closed loop, but working very fine).
How can BARALT hold drop out except for clogged static port?
I can understand that RADALT can do funny thing when over water or crossing a dropoff,
but BARALT hold should be super reliable, except maybe when close to mining explosion with noticeable shock wave.
And what is a "wrong pedal takeoff" in an AW169 ?
Its MR turn Bell-style, so even non-metric pilots from overseas should feel at home.
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: EGDC
No. He's talking about the original SA330 Puma, first designed in the early 1960s.
The Pumas were notorious for their lack of anticipators and the crewman would loiter between the seats to call the Ng/N1 above 75% - below that, at large application of collective would droop the Nr and drop the electrics and AP off line ISTR.
Joined: May 2011
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From: NEW YORK
An aircraft in perfect shape destroyed in seconds because more or less full left pedal is applied on ground.
I have never flown a plane but somehow I am sure not following the RFM and SOPs is a path to wreck a perfect airplane as well.
This has nothing to do with low safety standards. Planes crash all the time as well. Already forgotten the 737 Max?
I have never flown a plane but somehow I am sure not following the RFM and SOPs is a path to wreck a perfect airplane as well.
This has nothing to do with low safety standards. Planes crash all the time as well. Already forgotten the 737 Max?
Still is very sobering to see how fast things can go pear shaped.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Anyway, as we approach the Puma’s 50th anniversary in RAF service.....at least they fitted decent engines a decade or so ago.
Joined: May 2002
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From: still in bed
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Germany
you are showing, that you have no clue about what went on and which forces are working.
First mistake was not to unlock before starting to roll
second mistake was to increase pedal and collective, when the intended turn didn’t work - you can see the helicopter already tilting, which feels extremly odd and should make one uneasy...
third mistake was stopping with brakes instead of lowering the collective first - still torque applied
fourth mistake was to unlock the nose wheel in that configuration
and you think a pilot, not knowing what he did the whole time will be quick enough in his reactions and able to overcome the centrifugal forces after the first turn?
He needed to dump the collective within the first 90 to 180 degrees, if there ought to be a chance of recovery- after that he is only a passenger...
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: UK
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: EGDC
I've flown two aircraft with lockable tailwheels (Wessex and Sea King) and two with lockable nosewheels (AS365 and AW 139) and they all need a little wiggle on the yaw pedals moving forward slowly to ensure the pin comes out and the wheel is unlocked - not a great bootfull of pedal like this guy did.
If it doesn't unlock, lower the collective, check the handle/selector and then try again - gently!
Just very poor piloting.
If it doesn't unlock, lower the collective, check the handle/selector and then try again - gently!
Just very poor piloting.
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: UK
Anyway, as we approach the Puma’s 50th anniversary in RAF service.....at least they fitted decent engines a decade or so ago