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R44 200ftAGL engine out Autorotation video

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R44 200ftAGL engine out Autorotation video

Old 4th Mar 2021, 12:39
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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For some reason I can't upload images (never gets past 90%), but a quick search shows this being the configuration described - and visible in the video.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...AQMygAegQIARAy

It is clear that the switch is at best 'R' and more likely 'OFF', and he certainly doesn't seem to rotate it during the shutdown.
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 13:11
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
Does the after-start magneto check require the pilot to observe an ERPM drop, and if no such drop is observed the aircraft is unserviceable and requires maintenance prior to the next flight?
Yes, that is exactly correct.

The procedure is to set 75% engine RPM, then from the BOTH position, select L, then BOTH, then R, then BOTH (or you can do R first, etc.). The checklist says "Mag Drop at 75% RPM...7% max. in 2 seconds", meaning no more than a 7% loss of RPM from 75%.

Interestingly, there is no minimum mag drop specified. However, it is important to allow more than just two seconds to elapse when performing these checks so that a definite mag drop can be seen, and the integrity of the magneto switching system verified.
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 13:11
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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youtu.be/ 52YukTQf1dE (cant post URL)

Second video from rear pax............


Last edited by Senior Pilot; 7th Mar 2021 at 05:10. Reason: Add YouTube link
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 14:08
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Screen grab of the OP video showing the key in the off position.


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Old 4th Mar 2021, 14:29
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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I do not know anything about Robbies but...….if that poxy 50p key in the wrong position can result in such a cluster why is there not a dirty big red light or even a beepy noise telling you that the MAGS are not properly switched ON before you slip the surly bonds of earth?
To err is human. To design something that f***ks you up when you err without telling you beforehand is criminal! Does a 44 have a caution/warning panel OR is that the thing I cannot see hiding under the IPAD?

However, the little wild piggy's got to live another day so there was a positive!
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 14:33
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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There are two P leads, but I believe only one leg on the switch where those leads connect. If that connection was intermittent, and not intact during takeoff, both mags would work with key in "off". Then, if that single connection became intact during flight, both mags would connect to P, and no sparky. Can anybody confirm the switch configuration is one leg ground?
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 15:09
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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>if that poxy 50p key in the wrong position can result in such a cluster why is there not a dirty big red light or even a beepy noise telling you that the MAGS are not properly switched ON before you slip the surly bonds of earth?
under normal circumstances the engine in an r22/r44 will NOT run at all with the switch in the OFF position, hence no such warning is necessary

something was causing this machine's engine to run with the mag switch turned OFF


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Old 4th Mar 2021, 15:46
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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My GUESS is that gator2 has it.

I learned on R44 and flew then for years. My daughter also. We were both taught that in the mag test, if there was no "lumpiness" and RPM drop when you swapped from BOTH to L or R then there is an electrical problem, and the aircraft is unserviceable. The thing is, with no drop from BOTH to ONE it suggests that when in BOTH you really only have one mag (if the switch is working). As here, it could also show an intermittent fault in the earthing circuit.

A drop of more than 7% indicates that in BOTH you had 2 mags but the mag you are now testing is not serviceable.

I should also add, we were taught to test R first, as it is 2 clicks back to BOTH, then L (one click back to both). That way you reduce the risk of testing R second and only going back 1 click, so departing on the L mag only.

Anyway, if the test does not go as you expect then - whatever the difference - off to maintenance and no flying with me in it until sorted. .
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 17:20
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Technical issues aside, his sheepish grin after the crash speaks more “I knew I shouldn’t have done that” than “what the hell just happened”.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 18:27
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Last line of the video: "You're one hell of a f***in' pilot."
I guess we don't get to hear, "Yeah, I managed to take off with the mag switch off! Like to see Chuck Aaron do THAT!"

Oh, and he had plenty of airspeed when it quit - don't they teach R-44 pilots how to do autorotations anymore?
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 19:43
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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At exactly the two minute mark, he goes to turn off the already off mags. '...oh dear' flashes through his mind
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 20:42
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Cockpit camera. What more do you need to solve an incident?
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 20:42
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FH1100 Pilot View Post
Oh, and he had plenty of airspeed when it quit - don't they teach R-44 pilots how to do autorotations anymore?
Totally reading into the video, of course, but it looked like his initial plan was just to do a straight in from his original heading, i.e. keeping it simple, until he saw those power lines along the road. That last minute, very low level turn seemed to knocked him off his game. Maybe also the sight of the scrub brush reaching up to bite him, too.

The instructor I use for recurrent training has thrown some stuff at me that's close to that level of difficulty, but not quite. Last minute turns, but easy, "safe", terrain. A couple of times it resulted in an unplanned full down (mostly we do power recoveries in 44's) because there was no other way. Which I suppose is fine with the right instructor on board (mine sure is, 10K+ hours) but perhaps not with the average 200 hour CFI-H in a low inertial machine like the 44.

Honestly I hope I can do as well if ever faced with a low level auto in an R44 that needed a last minute turn into scrub lands like that.
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Old 5th Mar 2021, 03:02
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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aaa777888: "...low inertia machine like the 44."

Uhhh, what? Low-inertia? I've always heard that the R-44 has inertia like a 206B! What gives?

100 feet agl., 72 knots...engine quits, horn sounds. He does the cyclic-back thing alright to get his rpm back but apparently bled off most or all of his airspeed in the process. The horn sounds intermittently, indicating that the collective may not have been on the bottom. He gets a little rpm back in his premature flare and then again in the turn, but it evidently doesn't stay up.

We cannot see the tacho or any of the caution lights. R-44 kids these days sure do love their devices in the cockpit. I ask: How many devices do you need on a hog hunt flight! This kid has one device blocking his view of the mag switch (obviously), and *another* device mounted in such a way that it may have blocked the PIC's view of the caution panel. I am reminded of that chick out on the U.S. west coast who took off to go do some frost control one *dark* morning. She got fiddling with her iPad right after takeoff and ran her little R-44 smack dab into a grove of trees! Wrecked that ship pretty good - lucky she wasn't killed! (She may have damaged one of the trees in that grove, too.)

Finally, aa777888, you and I will just have to disagree on how "difficult" that EOL was. In my limited experience (11,000 hours) most helicopters come down pretty steeply in autorotation. Like, between-the-pedals steep, especially if you start close to your best-auto speed to begin with. Maybe yours doesn't. The powerline along the road was visible from a long way off. The kid should have realized immediately that he'd never glide past it - not from 100'. But there seemed to be plenty of open areas between the sagebrush to set the thing down. I know it's harsh to judge a guy's autorotation after the fact, but the video evidence of this one is pretty damning.

Yeah, yeah, everybody lived and the machine can be replaced...a new job can be found...new devices can be ordered from Apple, and we're thankful for all of that...I guess... But yet another "helicopters are dangerous!" video will go viral on YouTube and Instagram and wherever else "INSANE!!" aircraft crash videos are sold. And anytime a non-aviator asks us what happens when the engine quits, and we give them that standard old explanation of "air rushing up through the rotor keeps it spinning and we have complete control," the non-aviator will say, "Yeah, but I saw this YouTube video of a helicopter that crashed on a hog hunt, and..." And we'll sigh and silently think to ourself, "At least he didn't ask me about the Kobe Bryant crash!"

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Old 5th Mar 2021, 03:24
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently the accident was investigated and it turns out the gun of the front seat passenger knocked the magneto switch from the BOTH position to the OFF position and there was a fault in the L magneto that kept the motor running until it suddenly stopped running.
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Old 5th Mar 2021, 03:34
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Its a long time since I flew one of "Franks finest" but operationally or even maintenance-wise I don't remember there being any cause to check whether the mags were actually grounded by selecting OFF as I would guess the engine would stop dead as there is no flywheel effect like a prop.

I can understand the requirement with a prop when you see the number of people leaning or standing there with their hand on the prop in so much media. As a maintenance tech it gives me the
shivers - if they only knew. Appears in a lot of so-called "safety" magazines as well.

Mag checks are pretty important in the Robbo and policy was mag check "every" takeoff - no if's or buts. Even if you were on the ground for 30 seconds on all piston types that were operated.

We used to have a policy of cranking to check for a flat cylinder with mags OFF on the first flight of the day which would show up a dud P-Lead. The practice was revised due to subsequent inability to start with crappy little battery and starting issues in the middle of nowhere. It was more important to get a start first time.

No mag drop is the giveaway and yes it is too good to be true - it will always drop.

You gained a "feel" for how good or bad your mags and also plugs were. In the climate we were in mags on R22's might last 300 hours on average before needing some sort of attention. Poor cooling.

I guess as alluded to if one had a dud P-Lead you could start the machine and fly with the mags OFF and in-flight it resurrects itself OOPS! It would need to be the Left one too (I think) as otherwise, I don't think you could start it without
"shower of sparks" and using the retarded mag. The start vibrator grounds the main advanced points (hence P-Lead) and runs the retarded points when the starter is engaged.

As mentioned it is a long time since I flew one of these things but looking at the performance being achieved the aircraft is seriously heavy or the engine isn't producing much power.

I would have thought at 22"-23" and not climbing it doesnt seem to be getting much more than 65-70 knots or is not accelerating ar least. Maybe its me and cant remember just how limited they were!!
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Old 5th Mar 2021, 03:37
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently the accident was investigated and it turns out the gun of the front seat passenger knocked the magneto switch from the BOTH position to the OFF position and there was a fault in the L magneto that kept the motor running until it suddenly stopped running.
Must have been before takeoff?
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Old 5th Mar 2021, 04:53
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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And he must have been doing something odd with the gun - look where the mag switch is compared to the passenger.
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Old 5th Mar 2021, 04:58
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Probably pretty easy to replicate to prove a point.

Cant see the pedals but are rubber boots over them where they go through the floor standard now?

An empty shell case down there has hurt a few people over the years.
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Old 5th Mar 2021, 05:31
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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So the implication is that he didn't do any pre-take off checks (or certainly not properly after loading the pax) and he certainly didn't stop in the hover long enough to confirm all was well before transitioning - cowboy is as cowboy does.
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