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RAF announces Puma Replacement plan

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RAF announces Puma Replacement plan

Old 1st Apr 2021, 13:49
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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As someone said below, pretty rubbish architecture if there's a single point of failure across the entire cockpit
Taking the 139 as an example, the two MAUs sit pretty much next to each other under the bonnet so 1 round could quite easily do them both in - not much left in the cockpit without the MAUs.
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 16:12
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jimf671 View Post
Something like that. Is there a hot n high H225/725 because an off the shelf H225 is optimised for those long crew change flights over the ocean and we'd be back where we were several decades ago?
I don't believe that is strictly correct - the EC725 (later H225M) is the primary design, for long range CSAR, and the EC225/H225 is the civilian derivative (as has always been the case with the Puma family). I don't know exactly how its hot and high performance ranks, but bear in mind that most of the current operators are in 'hot' countries (Brazil, Malaysia etc), the French have been operating it in Afghanistan, and where are the primary theatres the French military are historically involved in (which would be factored into the design brief)? Chad, Niger, Mali, CAR etc
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 17:25
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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225 temperature limits according to the EASA Type Certificate:

-30°C to ISA +40°C, limited to 50°C See RFMS SUPP 2 for lower temperature operation down to -45°C.

I never had a problem with the 332L in Karratha with temperatures up to 40 degrees.
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 18:49
  #44 (permalink)  
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And now the Bell offering. https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...-requirement01 APRIL 2021

Bell touts ‘ideal' 525 for UK New Medium Helicopter requirement

by Gareth Jennings



Bell has described its 525 Relentless has being “an ideal aircraft” for the UK New Medium Helicopter (NMH), telling Janes that it is in constant touch with UK acquisition authorities as the country defines its Puma replacement plans.
The 525 Relentless would be ‘an ideal solution’ for the UK’s New Medium Helicopter requirement, Bell told Janes citing the aircraft’s ‘superior payload and range performance’. (Bell)

Speaking on 1 April a company representative said that Bell’s ‘super-medium’ 525 would be an ideal solution for the United Kingdom with its “superior payload and range performance”, while the company also has in its military portfolio the UH-1Y Venom and the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor it has co-developed with Boeing.

”Our teams are in constant contact with the UK acquisition authority as the United Kingdom continues to define their New Medium Helicopter (NMH) requirements. Bell remains committed to providing the right solution based on those requirements and we are certain our aircraft offer the most capable and versatile performance options,” the representative said, adding that the 525 is on track to be issued its certification by the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) later this year.

The 525 designation reportedly stands for 5 blades, 2 engines, 500 n miles. Developed as a commercial platform tailored for offshore oil and gas operations, as well as for corporate, VVIP transport, and parapublic roles, the 525 can carry 16 passengers and/or 1,814 kg of payload out to 500 n miles (926 km; 575 miles) at a cruise speed of 162 kt (300 km/h; 186 mph). Other performance specifications include a service ceiling of 20,000 ft, as well as a hover ceiling of 11,200 ft (in-ground effect)/ 8,600 ft (out of ground effect). Bell recently announced that the 525 had completed flight testing, and
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 19:01
  #45 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by pba_target View Post
As someone said below, pretty rubbish architecture if there's a single point of failure across the entire cockpit . However, I'd be more disappointed about the loss of ballistic protection given by all those steam gauges in front of you - I've yet to see an MFD marketed as bullet proof!
The AW109 has a single DAU.
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 21:20
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cyclic Hotline View Post
And now the Bell offering. https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...-requirement01 APRIL 2021

Bell touts ‘ideal' 525 for UK New Medium Helicopter requirement

by Gareth Jennings



Bell has described its 525 Relentless has being “an ideal aircraft” for the UK New Medium Helicopter (NMH), telling Janes that it is in constant touch with UK acquisition authorities as the country defines its Puma replacement plans.
The 525 Relentless would be ‘an ideal solution’ for the UK’s New Medium Helicopter requirement, Bell told Janes citing the aircraft’s ‘superior payload and range performance’. (Bell)

Speaking on 1 April a company representative said that Bell’s ‘super-medium’ 525 would be an ideal solution for the United Kingdom with its “superior payload and range performance”, while the company also has in its military portfolio the UH-1Y Venom and the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor it has co-developed with Boeing.

”Our teams are in constant contact with the UK acquisition authority as the United Kingdom continues to define their New Medium Helicopter (NMH) requirements. Bell remains committed to providing the right solution based on those requirements and we are certain our aircraft offer the most capable and versatile performance options,” the representative said, adding that the 525 is on track to be issued its certification by the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) later this year.

The 525 designation reportedly stands for 5 blades, 2 engines, 500 n miles. Developed as a commercial platform tailored for offshore oil and gas operations, as well as for corporate, VVIP transport, and parapublic roles, the 525 can carry 16 passengers and/or 1,814 kg of payload out to 500 n miles (926 km; 575 miles) at a cruise speed of 162 kt (300 km/h; 186 mph). Other performance specifications include a service ceiling of 20,000 ft, as well as a hover ceiling of 11,200 ft (in-ground effect)/ 8,600 ft (out of ground effect). Bell recently announced that the 525 had completed flight testing, and
lest it’s April 1st LOL Anyhow 4 years ago Bell unveiled mil Transport version





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Old 2nd Apr 2021, 10:37
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chopper2004 View Post
lest it’s April 1st LOL Anyhow 4 years ago Bell unveiled mil Transport version
Bell also proposed the B525 as a replacement of H155/ AS332L1 for the German Federal Police ( Bundespolizei ). That was well before April 1st.

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Old 7th Apr 2021, 21:57
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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One point which hasn't been mentioned yet on this thread is that the NMH is meant to replace three other niche military fleets as well as the Puma. The other three types are all much smaller, so the 225 looks rather big as a solution. As one example, having 225s in Cyprus would bring to mind the old adage about sledgehammers and nuts. For this reason as well as others, I suspect a smaller type will be selected.
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Old 8th Apr 2021, 12:48
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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All the machines touted so far in the aviation press will come in very pricey for what will be a 'stop gap' machine - all be it a long gap if traditional new project intros are anything to go by......Not sure we'd get value for money opting for an unsuccessful Leonardo design or an over-egged AH one.......As for the 525, behave yourself
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Old 8th Apr 2021, 13:19
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JulieAndrews View Post
All the machines touted so far in the aviation press will come in very pricey for what will be a 'stop gap' machine - all be it a long gap if traditional new project intros are anything to go by......Not sure we'd get value for money opting for an unsuccessful Leonardo design or an over-egged AH one.......As for the 525, behave yourself
I mean, let's face it, we're not going to see shiny tilt-rotors in RAF colours until what? 2045 at the earliest? At the recent RAeS lectures they were talking 2040 iirc for the NGRC, and openly admitted that to achieve that they needed to have already started work. So worst case (best case?) you'll see 20-25 years of life out of the fleet, and that's in the Puma replacement role, let alone any of the other more niche jobs.
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Old 12th Apr 2021, 21:08
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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In a (Eurotrash?) H215M or H225M you can easily get two sections in CEMO plus a monster pile of ammunition. Bit of a hot n high issue with the H225M perhaps.
Only counts if you get there without the rotorhead falling off at 2000'
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Old 13th Apr 2021, 07:26
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Now now MGD, let's not start that discussion up again
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Old 13th Apr 2021, 14:56
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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So it seems that we are back to people who have vested interests in promoting their own products, rubbishing everyone else's again are we?

Just let the MOD make up their own minds on this one!

TF
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Old 14th Apr 2021, 09:38
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tigerfish View Post
So it seems that we are back to people who have vested interests in promoting their own products, rubbishing everyone else's again are we?

Just let the MOD make up their own minds on this one!

TF
I think the issue here is the MOD is run by politicians and civil servants and their angle is not always the same as MOD procurement. Politicians like to keep jobs going in the UK, so whatever wins will likely have to be built (under license potentially) at Leonardo in Yeovil (or another facility if someone else wins). If Leonardo say the 149 will be built there, they are already 50% of the way to winning IMO. Anyone who cannot match that has a considerable hurdle to overcome commercially or technically. I was involved in an aviation tender recently for a government where the value to the local economy was given the same weighting as the price.
You might see something similar with UK SAR now that the UK is not bound by EU procurement rules with overall value to the UK judged rather than just price and technical.

Last edited by nowherespecial; 14th Apr 2021 at 09:39. Reason: grammar
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Old 21st Apr 2021, 20:19
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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MOD seem to be coping without influence of lobbyist/politicians with Apache using US FMS and new order for Chinooks. We can use Leonlardo for SELEX and for painting O&G aircraft warry colours if required for decoys ;-)
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