Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

H135 "Alternative Gross Weight"?

Wikiposts
Search
Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

H135 "Alternative Gross Weight"?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 18th Dec 2020, 14:43
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Depends on the day!
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
H135 "Alternative Gross Weight"?

AGW Certified

Can anyone explain how this is done or show how it's listed in the flight manual? Is it if you only operate in "standard conditions"?
PhlyingGuy is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2020, 16:29
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 10,331
Received 623 Likes on 271 Posts
Many manufacturers increase the MGW of their aircraft once in service, the 139 is a good example.

Unless there are modifications to the aircraft to achieve that, I think it will just be evidence provided by Airbus that it can still meet its certification criteria heavier than it was originally certified (Cat A/PC1 profiles for example).

It could require a software upgrade to the Helionix system to update performance figures, I don't know.

It should appear as a supplement in the RFM.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2020, 16:49
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Europe
Age: 59
Posts: 737
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 9 Posts
The flight envelope is restricted until 120 kgs of fuel have been burned.
HeliHenri is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2020, 17:39
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Depends on the day!
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by HeliHenri
The flight envelope is restricted until 120 kgs of fuel have been burned.
Thank you!
PhlyingGuy is offline  
Old 21st Dec 2020, 09:21
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 578
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
You can also see the changes in issue 17 of the TCDS for the EC135

https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/def...5_Issue_17.pdf
helihub is offline  
Old 21st Dec 2020, 13:39
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Depends on the day!
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by helihub
You can also see the changes in issue 17 of the TCDS for the EC135

https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/def...5_Issue_17.pdf
Thank you... I saw "operation permitted only in accordance with FMA 11-11", but since I don't have access to the RFM it's really hard for me to understand the details. The flight envelope restriction (as mentioned previously) helps, but if someone has a screen shot they'd be willing to share, I'd appreciate it!

Merry Christmas everyone!
PhlyingGuy is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 18:20
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 609
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Anyone having access to FMA 11-11 on what exactly is restricted when operating between 2980 and 3100 kg TOM?
Phoinix is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2021, 07:32
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: South West
Posts: 296
Received 21 Likes on 17 Posts
Originally Posted by Phoinix
Anyone having access to FMA 11-11 on what exactly is restricted when operating between 2980 and 3100 kg TOM?
No Cat A profiles I think
gipsymagpie is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2021, 07:33
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 609
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Thank you! So Cat B T/O and LDG, hover IGE/OGE allowed?
Phoinix is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2021, 08:03
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: South West
Posts: 296
Received 21 Likes on 17 Posts
Originally Posted by gipsymagpie
No Cat A profiles I think
Sorry that is total rubbish. I was looking at the first version of the supplement. Cat A operations are now permitted.

So big picture, Airbus want to sell more H135T3H. So the engineers look at the stress and fatigue capability of the airframe and give the nod. The flight test team then go and generate the new performance and handling data. The flight envelope is limited (due to either a limited flight test envelope or due to sheer performance limits). For example you are limited to 5000 ft for take and off and landing rather than 16000ft and you have a restricted angle of bank and speed envelope. I suspect those are due to the potential stress loads on the airframe exceeding the engineers red lines.

There is a limit to how far they can take the AUM as if they go beyond 3175kg you would encounter certification issues as the "upgrade" might have to be done on the certification basis of CS-29 rather than CS-27. Not only that but it would probably be the latest version of CS-29 rather than the 1996 version of CS-27 which the original underlying 135 was certified to. Lots of things on the airframe not actually related to AUM increase might have to change. I think Bell 429 had that issue.
gipsymagpie is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2021, 11:46
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 609
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Got it, thanks!

Phoinix is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.