helicopter down in the Black Isle Scotland
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 23
Likes: 17
From: scotland
ShyT, OK, but by continuing to reference the characteristics of these older machines you help perpetuate the misconceptions of the safety of modern gyros.
Gyros do not have high visibility in GA but as an example, the type I fly, an MTOSport, has over 1000 units flying world wide.
Dick.
Gyros do not have high visibility in GA but as an example, the type I fly, an MTOSport, has over 1000 units flying world wide.
Dick.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
ShyT, OK, but by continuing to reference the characteristics of these older machines you help perpetuate the misconceptions of the safety of modern gyros.
Gyros do not have high visibility in GA but as an example, the type I fly, an MTOSport, has over 1000 units flying world wide.
Dick.
Gyros do not have high visibility in GA but as an example, the type I fly, an MTOSport, has over 1000 units flying world wide.
Dick.
For many years I was a member of a flying club where one of the types without a horizontal stabiliser of any sort was based...and then crashed...for the very reason you stated. I would not fly in one of those aircraft because I don’t have to.
I then stated my personal preference was for a more traditional (and actually more modern) type that does have a horizontal stabiliser and therefore very good horizontal stability! I can’t imagine why you find that difficult to accept, unless perhaps you aren’t familiar with the Herron “Littlewing”, which as I said, I would happily fly. The Pitcairn first flew in the early 1930s!
Search for Little Wing autogyro - they do have a website and there is a video on YouTube where Ron is interviewed.
Last edited by ShyTorque; 14th November 2020 at 17:05. Reason: YouTube Link removed due to adverts!
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,992
Likes: 511
From: UK
CJ and RINKER,
The cause is not yet known, AFAIK, so please do not jump to conclusions.
dickmct - "do not jump to conclusions." Precisely - there were NONE on my part other than knowledge of, and consideration for, past incidents/accidents.
I would suggest that your background and experience, more than any other, would have pointed you to the huge difference between yourself and a trainee or low-timer, in what your description indicates as requiring both specific skills and techniques.
"over-controlled leading to PIO and a divergent phugoid followed by a push over into negative G. This was a killer. The push-over still is a killer"
I'm reasonably sure that basic aerodynamics and physics haven't changed all that much in the last century.
The cause is not yet known, AFAIK, so please do not jump to conclusions.
dickmct - "do not jump to conclusions." Precisely - there were NONE on my part other than knowledge of, and consideration for, past incidents/accidents.
I would suggest that your background and experience, more than any other, would have pointed you to the huge difference between yourself and a trainee or low-timer, in what your description indicates as requiring both specific skills and techniques.
"over-controlled leading to PIO and a divergent phugoid followed by a push over into negative G. This was a killer. The push-over still is a killer"
I'm reasonably sure that basic aerodynamics and physics haven't changed all that much in the last century.
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 23
Likes: 17
From: scotland
Another well-crafted reply lost into cyberspace, but to summarise:- Sorry if I caused offence, that was not my intent. However I do think that I have been misinterpreted in that I wished to convey the idea that modern gyros, while superficially similar to the old types, are very difference beasts. They compare as does the Wright Flyer to a Cessna. The horrors of the Brock et al have been designed out and a modern gyro is as benign as current fixed wing types. Indeed, the MTO3, German factory-built to a very high standard, is very like a Piper Cub to fly and as vice less.They take no extra special skill to fly and require no esoteric techniques.
I would be pleased to take PMs if anyone needs any more info.
Dick.
I would be pleased to take PMs if anyone needs any more info.
Dick.
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 74
Likes: 60
From: Cherniy Ostrov
AAIB report published
https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib...cavalon-g-ckyt
Not without controversy:
"The BFU, representing the state of design and manufacture, provided comment on the draft Final Report. The BFU Accredited Representative, stated that in their opinion the failure of the rotor was a direct consequence of a complete and unrecoverable loss of control of the gyroplane. As such, the flight loads which resulted in the failure were outside of the design requirements and neither the current design of the Cavalon nor the certification regulations require amendment as a result of this accident. They stated that in their opinion the loss of control of the gyroplane was a result of the actions of the pilot. Several adjustments were made to the report as a result of comments received during the consultation process. However, the investigation did not find evidence indicating a complete and unrecoverable loss of control before the catastrophic failure of the rotorhead, and so this point of disagreement is appended to the Final Report. "
IM
Not without controversy:
"The BFU, representing the state of design and manufacture, provided comment on the draft Final Report. The BFU Accredited Representative, stated that in their opinion the failure of the rotor was a direct consequence of a complete and unrecoverable loss of control of the gyroplane. As such, the flight loads which resulted in the failure were outside of the design requirements and neither the current design of the Cavalon nor the certification regulations require amendment as a result of this accident. They stated that in their opinion the loss of control of the gyroplane was a result of the actions of the pilot. Several adjustments were made to the report as a result of comments received during the consultation process. However, the investigation did not find evidence indicating a complete and unrecoverable loss of control before the catastrophic failure of the rotorhead, and so this point of disagreement is appended to the Final Report. "
IM
