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Need a fuel top up?

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Need a fuel top up?

Old 21st May 2020, 15:30
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Need a fuel top up?

Well you learn something new every day, you can now fill up your Robinson at a regular petrol station!!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8343715/Helicopter-pilot-lands-Polish-petrol-station-tank.html

This is the strange moment a man lands his private helicopter at a petrol station to fill up on gas before paying and flying off.

Mobile phone footage of the bizarre scene shows stunned customers looking on as the pilot lands and then pushes his chopper to a petrol pump at the station in the town of Garwolin in Poland.

After filling the tank he then pays 'as if nothing had happened' before another video shows him climbing into the cockpit and taking off.
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Old 21st May 2020, 15:37
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The Cabri G2 can be run on "alternate fuel" as mentioned in the RFM, although I seem to recall an engineer told me "temporarily" means there is limit on the number of flight hours the alternate fuel grades can be used between 50H checks.

"Alternate grades

Automotive unleaded gasoline can be used temporarily if it complies with EN228 or ASTM D4814 and following conditions :

Minimum octane rating ............................................................ . 98 (*) Alcohols (ethanol, methanol, etc.) ............................... Zero content

(*) (RON ≥ 98 and MON ≥ 87) or AKI ≥ 93

Note 1 : When using alternate grades, power is limited to maximum continuous power. Refer to page 2-8.
Note 2: Refer to page 4-15 for management of possible fuel gage error."



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Old 21st May 2020, 16:58
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automotive gasoline STC
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Old 21st May 2020, 20:07
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Only the carbureted engines have the auto-gas STC; the fuel-injected engines require leaded fuel. I do wonder if you can fly a turbine on auto diesel.
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Old 21st May 2020, 20:56
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Only for a desperate reason, auto diesel has a lot more wax still in it than Avtur does. Can clog things up.
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Old 21st May 2020, 21:17
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Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr View Post
Only the carbureted engines have the auto-gas STC; the fuel-injected engines require leaded fuel. I do wonder if you can fly a turbine on auto diesel.
Westland Scout can run on pretty much anything other than Avgas. Kerosene, paraffin, diesel, Avcat/tag, Civgas, Combatgas. All it means is increased servicing, filters, nozzles, fuel lubricated pumps etc. Avgas flashpoint is too low, the engine would run too hot.
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Old 21st May 2020, 22:16
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So as mentioned above there’s AutogasSTC for 44’s still in carbs. I know fixed wing STC’s demand auto gas with no or minimal ethanol to avoid amongst other things vapourlock. Would this be the same for the 44 or could you use regular or super unleaded from gas station?
Sorry for thread drift but worth knowing.
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Old 21st May 2020, 22:59
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Robinson automotive gasoline approvals: Use of automotive gasoline is approved by the FAA and by EASA by STCs:
Robinson R22 HP, Alpha, Beta, Beta II, Mariner, Robinson R44 Astro, Clipper, Raven I. The R44 also is approved for UL91 fuel.
For Robinson products, the minimum octane is 91 (RON + MON/2). All fuels must meet ASTM Specification D-439 for leaded fuel or D-4814 for unleaded. Fuel containing alcohol is not approved, nor is E-85 fuel at this time. EUROPE: EN228 was found to be substantially similar to D-4814. A great many STCs have been sold in every country in Europe and now increasingly in Eastern Europe.


The AS-350B2 allows the use of automotive gasoline as a replacement fuel with the following restrictions:
1. The use of gasoline is limited to 25 hours maximum between engine overhauls.
2. Requires adding 2% mineral lubricating oil if possible.
3. Maximum pressure altitude of 1500 ft and fuel temperature 30°C.





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Old 22nd May 2020, 00:45
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A quick search on Wikipedia confirms most of the above that Avgas and Mogas are fairly compatible But was there really a good reason to land where he did, I doubt it and guess it was probably a stunt especially when you look at the take off and subsequent 180 turn.... probably a you tuber looking for ratings....
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Old 22nd May 2020, 01:38
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Only for a desperate reason, auto diesel has a lot more wax still in it than Avtur does. Can clog things up
Desperate reasons? Perhaps, but it is an approved fuel in some applications AC, cropdusters for example, comes with a temperature limit to avoid the gumming problem. Have heard of it used in the early days in Oz in French helos, don't know the legality in those days, from memory I think the story was it was approved by the manufacturer.

https://www.casa.gov.au/file/78736/d...token=QoRwuv96
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Old 22nd May 2020, 07:07
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Helicopters have flight manuals The only reliable answer is to comply with it.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 07:43
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Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr View Post
I do wonder if you can fly a turbine on auto diesel.
Some do:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...12547618964165

skadi
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Old 22nd May 2020, 08:45
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The Turmo 3/C series gas turbines in the 330 Puma started off in life as motive power for French High Speed railway trains. They could run on anything as long as it was liquid. One can of engine oil per drum of Avgas would lubricate the pumps.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 10:38
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I suspect that the shock horror reaction was more to do with the unexpected event of a helicopter (a "private" one to boot!!) filling up at a pertrol station rather than a public reaction to possible infrigerments of its Flight Manual.
And then flew away "as if nothing had happened". Nothing the onlookers weren't doing themselves, and then drove away as if 'nothing had happened'. You'd think he'd committed a murder, but then it is the Daily Wail again.
Hardly the first time this has happened, so why the fuss?

Even so, daft thing to do if you want to keep your licence.

Last edited by meleagertoo; 22nd May 2020 at 10:48.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:42
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Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme View Post
A quick search on Wikipedia confirms most of the above that Avgas and Mogas are fairly compatible But was there really a good reason to land where he did, I doubt it and guess it was probably a stunt especially when you look at the take off and subsequent 180 turn.... probably a you tuber looking for ratings....
Ok, maybe he should have waited for 5 seconds in a stabilised hover at 3 feet, for a last check before climbing out.

But else, can’t find anything special about this take-of.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 17:30
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Old 22nd May 2020, 18:31
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
The Turmo 3/C series gas turbines in the 330 Puma started off in life as motive power for French High Speed railway trains. They could run on anything as long as it was liquid. One can of engine oil per drum of Avgas would lubricate the pumps.
Strangely enough, the only "emergency fuel" not specified in the Puma HC1 manuals and FRCs was Diesel. I think the limit for anything else was 10 flying hours.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 19:48
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Originally Posted by Same again View Post
Given the length of the fuel hose I'm thinking their station has been used before as I can't see a need for a fifty foot fuel hose at a normal service station.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 21:56
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What are the odds of getting fuel without an ethanol content?

or perhaps the pilot is a regular because they have leaded 4*
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Old 22nd May 2020, 23:40
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Pretty common “in the old days”.
I can remember planning via roadhouses on Robinson ferry flights across Australia
We still had leaded fuel (“Super”) at the “servos”.
Handy, as I was often flying IFR (I Follow Roads) - just prior to GPS.
Old.
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