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Kobe Bryant killed in S76 crash

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Kobe Bryant killed in S76 crash

Old 12th Feb 2020, 15:46
  #581 (permalink)  
 
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This talk of a passenger decoupling the autopilot can be pretty much discounted. They’d have to either press two buttons on the centre console and disengage both channels or reach across and press the flight director buttons on the pilot side or reach across and press the decouple button on the pilot cyclic. All highly unlikely (bordering on ridiculous)
The mention of someone being a front seat passenger and overriding the controls is plausible if they have a cyclic in front of them, as they can interfere with flight controls and grabbing a cyclic in a stressful situation could cause all sorts of problems for the pilot. Its unlikely they could press down on the collective (unlikely because you need to press a trigger under the collective handgrip to move collective. )

Some polarising sunglasses definitely prevent you from viewing the screens in a C++ from certain angles, but I’m not sure about a B model.

All of this talk is supposition. We will likely never know the real cause of this accident, but if nothing else it should make the helicopter pilot community maybe stop and think a second longer when they next take that flight in deteriorating conditions. We can only live in hope.

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Old 12th Feb 2020, 17:24
  #582 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sir Korsky View Post
Pretty sure I remember somewhere it states eyes should be level with the glare shield in 76 publications. 76 always had good viz and was easy to reference in all stages of flight. Super aircraft.

went to the basement to dig this up...


who's nose?
Noesel Cowling‘s
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Old 12th Feb 2020, 20:25
  #583 (permalink)  
 
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6000hrs on 76s, pilot here.

regarding the cockpit picture....two things screaming at me!

1) how low level the flight appears to be?
2) his HSI heading bug is not set. Whether I’m flying IMC or VMC....heading bug heading bug heading bug.....even on NAV.

Was beaten into me as a young cojo, heading control and altitude control will save you when wx goes woxoff! Not criticizing, but my OCD is smacking me with those two items!
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Old 12th Feb 2020, 23:05
  #584 (permalink)  
 
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You don't reckon that photo was taken as the aircraft was setting on a waterside pad out at Catalina do you?
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Old 12th Feb 2020, 23:22
  #585 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
You don't reckon that photo was taken as the aircraft was setting on a waterside pad out at Catalina do you?
yeah, I thought of that possibility....check the airspeed gauge...I don’t see the analog needle at zero. I could be wrong....old age and all.
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Old 12th Feb 2020, 23:58
  #586 (permalink)  
 
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A bit of googling came up with this video.......

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Old 13th Feb 2020, 03:29
  #587 (permalink)  
 
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SASless, that video brought back a few memories of a time and a place that's half a lifetime ago. Thanks. If Ara got to fly that route with some frequency, then he was a lucky man.
.
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Old 13th Feb 2020, 21:58
  #588 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
You don't reckon that photo was taken as the aircraft was setting on a waterside pad out at Catalina do you?

If you look careful at the picture, you can see enough of the ASI needle to make out that the 76 is at great speed.

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Old 13th Feb 2020, 22:12
  #589 (permalink)  
 
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Your eyes are better than mine....but these days there is nothing surprising about that.

I shall go with the majority of the young eagle eyed amongst us.
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 06:01
  #590 (permalink)  
 
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Nubian wrote

If you look careful at the picture, you can see enough of the ASI needle to make out that the 76 is at great speed.
I disagree a bit. If you look at the Torque gauge, its at around 60% (S-76B) so its not that fast and even though we can't see, at that altitude, there wouldn't have been enough ROD to bump the speed up to "great speed" levels.
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 11:30
  #591 (permalink)  
 
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a) This is not the accident aircraft, these aren't accident conditions.
b) I originally put the source in the image comment, it showed up in preview, but not in the post. It's on facebook. m.facebook.com/177379092306991/photos/a.2383881068323438/2388266127884932/?type=3&source=54
c) It's a panoramic picture. These can be taken by carefully rotating your smartphone while it automatically takes pictures, and then software stitches them together. (This means the left and the right edge can be a few seconds apart.)
d) The left side of the panoramic picture that has Ara sitting on the right side looks like this:


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Old 14th Feb 2020, 13:10
  #592 (permalink)  
 
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145, normal cruise for an S-76 then.
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 18:28
  #593 (permalink)  
 
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You seem familiar with this autopilot system. Would you know (hypothetically) if the autopilot was engaged, is there an 'alert' system to indicate to the pilot that a trim (pitch) situation to a maxium position has occured. (full aft or full forward trim) (due to a fuel burn, CG, airspeed/altitude change, etc) Obviously, he pilot should 'know' or be paying attention, but how is the trim positon 'scanned' (with autopilot engaged) in normal operations? Thanks.
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 19:29
  #594 (permalink)  
 
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One thing I never liked about the 76 was the lack of audio annunciation when/if the modes decoupled. Some later 76 models would alert you with a " decouple " audio warning - but not all of them and even then it seemed to be sporadic at best. So if you got distracted, you may not have noticed that George wasn't driving anymore. The 139 gives you a big old bell chime whenever a mode is uncoupled or decoupled and you get used to hearing it after selecting a function and then you confirm that selection with a color change on the PFD. So in the 76, you had to be real careful that the aircraft was coupled and remember who had charge of the FD panel/APs. The 139 only has one center console mounted FD panel so takes care of that problem.

The 76 has needle monitors which correlate/mirror the moving AP actuators but not the trim.

Last edited by Sir Korsky; 15th Feb 2020 at 00:58. Reason: corrected bad memory
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 19:36
  #595 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Glacier pilot View Post
You seem familiar with this autopilot system. Would you know (hypothetically) if the autopilot was engaged, is there an 'alert' system to indicate to the pilot that a trim (pitch) situation to a maxium position has occured. (full aft or full forward trim) .
The S76 autopilot trim can't get to a maximum trim position like a jack screw on an aeroplane trim system might get to a maximum position. The S76 uses two linear actuators in series per channel, each with 5% control authority (fast/fine movements), with a rotary trim actuator that re-positions (coarse movement) as required to make sure the linear actuators always operate about their central position (so they can never get saturated). This operation is syncronized automatically and the pilot is not aware of it doing its thing. A separate autopilot computer controls each linear actuator. The linear actuators have a position indicator in the cockpit. If one actuator has failed "hard over" the other actuator goes "hard over" in the other direction to compensate. Or if one actuator simply stops playing the other actuator just moves double, to compensate. There is also an AP1/2 warning light, and another indicator that will display a diagnostic fault code. The fault code will be proceeded by a 1 or 2 to tell you what channel has the fault. Just follow what the manual says in response to the particular fault code. If all else fails just turn off the affected autopilot. 5% authority on the remaining series actuator is enough for the system to do what it needs to do, although with an AP off you can't couple the flight director for push button flying.

Last edited by gulliBell; 14th Feb 2020 at 20:08.
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 19:38
  #596 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Glacier pilot View Post
You seem familiar with this autopilot system. Would you know (hypothetically) if the autopilot was engaged, is there an 'alert' system to indicate to the pilot that a trim (pitch) situation to a maxium position has occured. (full aft or full forward trim) (due to a fuel burn, CG, airspeed/altitude change, etc) Obviously, he pilot should 'know' or be paying attention, but how is the trim positon 'scanned' (with autopilot engaged) in normal operations? Thanks.
there are small windows showing trim actuator position with an analog needle. Should one of them hardover, the respective AP should kick off and an indication of 1(2) AP appears in the narrow window(in the pic)....the one with hashed digits. In the pic, flight director (hdg, nav, alt, etc...)is not engaged and he is flying the aircraft manually. Also, his heading bug and track bar is not being used/ set according to aircraft flighpath.

Again, this is not the accident flight but someone earlier said it was a checkride flight.
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 19:43
  #597 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sir Korsky View Post
...So if you got distracted, you may not have noticed that George wasn't driving anymore..
Well yeah. There is an amber DCPL warning light and "decouple" audio, and if the aircraft isn't following the command bars, then you'd need to be pretty much asleep at the wheel not to notice any of those.
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 19:50
  #598 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
Well yeah. There is an amber DCPL warning light and "decouple" audio, and if the aircraft isn't following the command bars, then you'd need to be pretty much asleep at the wheel not to notice any of those.
That was it, decouple audio. Was a while ago. I am only reporting what I saw in flying with maybe 30 guys in 2000 hours on A's through C's. On multiple occasions nobody had noticed that George wasn't driving - and don't get me started on the blow throughs where George wouldn't capture the ALT and keep on climbing or descending. Must have flown 20 airframes too. Just a statement of facts and no intention of being better than anyone else is intended here. If I won the lottery I'd let you fly.
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 19:56
  #599 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by donut king View Post
...Should one of them hardover, the respective AP should kick off ...
Not really, the AP won't kick off, it continues to drive the other 2 axes in the normal way. But the flying will feel "sloppy" in the channel that has gone "hard over" because both series actuators will be out of the equation (with the good actuator still playing but driven all the way opposite to the failed channel).
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 20:02
  #600 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sir Korsky View Post
....and don't get me started on the blow throughs where George wouldn't capture the ALT and keep on climbing or descending...
That's interesting. My experience is the opposite. I don't remember George not doing what its supposed to do. Not ever (although there might have been, once or twice). I guess all our George's must have been the ones not built on a Friday.
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