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R44 Turns over while trying to land on a trolley in California

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R44 Turns over while trying to land on a trolley in California

Old 7th Oct 2019, 15:45
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
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Originally Posted by rottenjohn View Post
Name some other helicopters that have broken up in flight, mast bumped in conditions that are not extreme, burst into fire as the result of a roll over, blades delaminating.....
@rottenjohn: apparently you were did not follow the link to the other discussion topic where a wide variety of such examples are listed. Go back and read again. And need we really mention how well the AStars seem to burn...
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Old 8th Oct 2019, 16:30
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aa777888 View Post
@rottenjohn: apparently you were did not follow the link to the other discussion topic where a wide variety of such examples are listed. Go back and read again. And need we really mention how well the AStars seem to burn...
1

I have a little over 8000 hours in various variants of the AS350 series. Iíve had a couple of mechanical failures but Iíve total confidence in its design and build. My boss a few years ago decided that a R44 would fill a niche. That thing scared the life out of me when for no reason whatsoever it started a weird oscillation, this was while flying over water. Just had to ride it out, varied the speed and collective. I thought it was going to flick me out the door.
He got rid of it soon after. Iíve lost 4 friends in 3 separate R44 crashes. None have really been explained as to why.
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Old 8th Oct 2019, 17:47
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: California
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Originally Posted by rottenjohn View Post
1

I have a little over 8000 hours in various variants of the AS350 series. Iíve had a couple of mechanical failures but Iíve total confidence in its design and build. My boss a few years ago decided that a R44 would fill a niche. That thing scared the life out of me when for no reason whatsoever it started a weird oscillation, this was while flying over water. Just had to ride it out, varied the speed and collective. I thought it was going to flick me out the door.
He got rid of it soon after. Iíve lost 4 friends in 3 separate R44 crashes. None have really been explained as to why.
That sounds like a chugging problem they were having a while ago. They said changing the tranny mounts fixed the problem, however, they never seemed to figure out why it was chugging.

,...so gotta give you that one.
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Old 14th Oct 2019, 21:43
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
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Lots of misinformation in this thread. The helicopter was not owned by Robinson, it was owned by Civic Helicopters with one of their CFIs onboard along with a student. The student missed the dolley, resulting in a dynamic rollover that the CFI was too slow to catch in time. This would have happened with literally any helicopter. In fact there was a fatal accident a few years ago at the same airport where someone in an AS350 tried to land on a dolley but messed up so badly he went upside-down.
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Old 15th Oct 2019, 00:38
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr View Post
Lots of misinformation in this thread. The helicopter was not owned by Robinson, it was owned by Civic Helicopters with one of their CFIs onboard along with a student. The student missed the dolley, resulting in a dynamic rollover that the CFI was too slow to catch in time. This would have happened with literally any helicopter. In fact there was a fatal accident a few years ago at the same airport where someone in an AS350 tried to land on a dolley but messed up so badly he went upside-down.
Why then the big rush to cover the registration number? And yes as previously mentioned on this thread trolley landings can be perilous whatever you are flying.
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Old 15th Oct 2019, 03:07
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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nomorehelosforme: The practice of covering up registration markings, and any other identifying features, of a crashed helicopter is surprisingly common. I have done it once (on an AS350) and I'm not in any hurry to do it again. Though not a requirement this practice aims to protect the owner-operator against any wild media speculation regarding the accident by self appointed "experts" who always seem to crawl out of the woodwork when accidents happen. I'm sure most of you will agree that PPRuNe is a good example of this. .
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Old 15th Oct 2019, 16:52
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr View Post
In fact there was a fatal accident a few years ago at the same airport where someone in an AS350 tried to land on a dolley but messed up so badly he went upside-down.
Not quite upside down...it was on its side spinning, and speculation is the deaths occurred due to the high centrifugal forces of the spin.
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Old 17th Oct 2019, 00:46
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by Saint Jack View Post
nomorehelosforme: The practice of covering up registration markings, and any other identifying features, of a crashed helicopter is surprisingly common. I have done it once (on an AS350) and I'm not in any hurry to do it again. Though not a requirement this practice aims to protect the owner-operator against any wild media speculation regarding the accident by self appointed "experts" who always seem to crawl out of the woodwork when accidents happen. I'm sure most of you will agree that PPRuNe is a good example of this. .
Saint Jack,

Wild media speculation by self proclaimed experts who seem to thrive on getting themselves in the press or a live news report. Agreed a great example.
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Old 17th Oct 2019, 01:32
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Originally Posted by Saint Jack View Post
nomorehelosforme: The practice of covering up registration markings, and any other identifying features, of a crashed helicopter is surprisingly common. I have done it once (on an AS350) and I'm not in any hurry to do it again. Though not a requirement this practice aims to protect the owner-operator against any wild media speculation regarding the accident by self appointed "experts" who always seem to crawl out of the woodwork when accidents happen. I'm sure most of you will agree that PPRuNe is a good example of this. .
Covering rego markings, and or company logos is considered best practice in the airline industry after a crash (am an ex-airline PR guy).
Stops the photo of your logo blackened and charred going worldwide - see Air NZ's Koru on the tail at the Erebus site for example.
There's an additional benefit of doing so.
When I were a journo - the quick and dirty way of finding the relatives of dead people to ask them how do you feel (utterly reprehensible I know - but demanded by editors) was to do a rego search to get the name of the owner.
If it was an individual - cross match that name with an electoral roll search and bingo - you have an address at which to door knock.
Vile business - never had the stomach for it.
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Old 18th Oct 2019, 03:28
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Permit me elaborate a little regarding my Post #26; When I wrote, "....and I'm not in any hurry to do it again" I was thinking about the argument I had with a senior police officer at the scene who couldn't understand what I was doing with a can of paint and a brush. Against his "advice" I continued to paint over the registration marks, serial number, company logo and company name. It was only when he uttered the words "tampering with evidence" that I stopped - I was done anyway. The moral of the story - don't get carried away at an accident scene, cover the identifying markings then stop and wait for the real experts..
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