Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

German Federal Police helicopter crew twice refueled the wrong fuel

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

German Federal Police helicopter crew twice refueled the wrong fuel

Old 29th Aug 2019, 21:25
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: germany
Posts: 8
German Federal Police helicopter crew twice refueled the wrong fuel

The German Federal Police demanded more than one million euros in damages from a helicopter crew because they had twice refueled the wrong fuel.
The police practiced a surveillance mission in March, using a helicopter with thermal imaging camera. As the "Spiegel" reports, there was a mix-up that could ruin three policemen financially.
The crew consisting of pilot, co-pilot and flight operator, landed twice during the exercise at Stendal airfield in Saxony-Anhalt. There, they refueled their Eurocopter 135, but unfortunately with the wrong fuel. At the end of the exercise, the damage was noted during the routine inspection: The turbines were virtually burned out, the technicians reported. The Federal Police had several ways to repair the damage, learned the "Spiegel": This included a major overhaul of the engines or an exchange for used turbines. It was decided to install new turbines, which was the fastest but also the most expensive solution.

The bill should now pay the three policemen: Together exactly 1,072,293.49 euros. Now the union of the police representing the occupation is arguing with the Federal Ministry of the Interior about the legality of the claim.
Sorry, I can not insert a link...
412pilot is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2019, 23:30
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London/Atlanta
Posts: 359
I searched for the link and didn’t find it. Suggest you reply to this and a couple of other threads and you can then post links.
nomorehelosforme is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 00:45
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: on the ground
Posts: 345
Removing English language elements and searching for "Stendal Saxony-Anhalt Eurocopter 135 Spiegel" I turned up the following German language articles:
https://www.spiegel.de/plus/bundespo...0-000165579685
https://www.heute.at/s/falsch-getank...ahlen-43310805
Although I neither speak nor read German, <bundespolizei beamte tankten falschen sprit> and <Falsch getankt> seem to me to be saying something about wrong fuel!

I note with interest the German word <Hubschrauber>, from the second link, which apparently means "helicopter", I suspect sometimes that German is best appreciated by non speakers...

Edit: also this link:
https://polizistmensch.de/2019/08/fi...ersatz-zahlen/
nonsense is online now  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 00:48
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: on the ground
Posts: 345
https://translate.google.com/transla...85&prev=search

https://translate.google.com/transla...ahlen-43310805

https://translate.google.com/transla...n/&prev=search
nonsense is online now  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 02:00
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 332
im interested to know what fuel they put in
GrayHorizonsHeli is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 02:26
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 309
In 1981 we ran some helicopters ,Astars, B206 and 500's (LTS 101 and C20Bs) on avgas for 5 days not knowing about it, our fuel drums were filled with avgas instead of jetB (still using jetB at the time) a couple of days later an AME noticed a white powder inside the exhaust of the Astar and phoned around trying to figure out what it was, he found out it was lead from the burned avgas doing it.
We stopped the operation for 2 days until new drums of JetB showed up and simply started working again. Nobody ever had any problems from it, at least on the job we were on.

JD
fijdor is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 02:50
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,409
The explanation of burned turbine sounds odd....if it was hot enough to do damage to the turbines you'd think the ITT indicator would give them a clue.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 03:37
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Cape Town, ZA
Age: 59
Posts: 424
This old thread touches on the likely issue, lead contamination of the turbine blade surfaces (not overheating). See: Diesel or avgas in a turbine engine
GordonR_Cape is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 05:05
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,409
I would have thought leaded fuels in the eco-conscious EU would be a no-no. Interesting to know what fuel they inadvertently used. Obviously, the operator shouldn't have any claim against the flight crew for using the wrong fuel, no?
gulliBell is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 05:07
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the big blue planet
Posts: 966
Originally Posted by GrayHorizonsHeli View Post
im interested to know what fuel they put in

Avgas

skadi
skadi is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 08:32
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,170
A gas turbine will run on Avgas though not so efficiently. The problem is that there is no lubricant in the fuel so pumps and metering devices suffer.

The old Turmo III on the 330 Puma would run on anything. Avgas required a couple of litres of oil tossed in the tanks before refuelling.
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 14:17
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 3,885
Turbines are frequently permitted to use Avgas, but limitations are spelled out in the manual. The PT-6 in the King Air is permitted 150Hrs on Avgas hours between engine overhauls.
megan is online now  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 18:34
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: in the barrel
Posts: 147
Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
I would have thought leaded fuels in the eco-conscious EU would be a no-no. Interesting to know what fuel they inadvertently used. Obviously, the operator shouldn't have any claim against the flight crew for using the wrong fuel, no?
The Avgas is still the same.
AviatorDave is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 19:06
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 332
if its only avgas, where else did it all go wrong to burn out the turbines?
sounds like much more to the story we may never know.
GrayHorizonsHeli is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 21:57
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Bar to Bar
Posts: 764
Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
A gas turbine will run on Avgas though not so efficiently. The problem is that there is no lubricant in the fuel so pumps and metering devices suffer.

The old Turmo III on the 330 Puma would run on anything. Avgas required a couple of litres of oil tossed in the tanks before refuelling.
Nimbus would take anything, just needed to clean the nozzles and change the filters more often
Sloppy Link is online now  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 23:15
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London/Atlanta
Posts: 359
Interesting that helicopters seem quite resilient to the wrong fuel. Diesel cars donít fair so well if you fill them with petrol/gas!!
nomorehelosforme is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2019, 23:21
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: yorkshire uk
Posts: 1,520
Not really as they are totally different. A turbine is basically a blowtorch which would run on any fuel .... including alcohol!
nigelh is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2019, 14:19
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 462
Originally Posted by nigelh View Post
Not really as they are totally different. A turbine is basically a blowtorch which would run on any fuel .... including alcohol!
Well THANKS for that advice Nigel. Just put Wife Beater in one of ours and now the damn thing wonít start!
Torquetalk is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2019, 16:23
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK and MALTA
Age: 58
Posts: 1,272
My Instructor at Army Apprentice college told me you could run a Gas Turbine on coal dust.....if you could pump it around fast enough.
DOUBLE BOGEY is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2019, 21:51
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,170
The Turmo used in the Puma descended from the gas turbines used in French railway trials. Not only were they bulletproof simple but they would run them on diesel.

My experience with them was that they would run on anything you threw at it. Pigeons, sparrows, bats, it didn't matter.
Fareastdriver is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.