R44 Crash Leicester 3rd August 19

[[email protected]]

Always have to have the last word Crab ! Can’t you accept that we don’t all operate in the same way ?

Actually Nigel, we do - FB has now described exactly what I advocated - slow raising of the lever and applying power pedal as you do so - I do that every time I lift to the hover and I suspect that you do too.

My only point was that when jumping from one type to another it can be helpful to prepare mentally so that the wrong motor program doesn't run - if you did inadvertently start to put the wrong pedal then slow application of the lever would give you time to correct that.

If you are in the habit of just grabbing a handful of lever and sorting it out in a wobbly hover then you aren't using the same technique as many of us.

[ShyTorque]

Certain types will roll if the "wrong" pedal is applied as the collective is raised. Normally ones with a high tail rotor. We were required to demo a "wrong pedal" takeoff to students on the Puma OCU. It could get out of hand if you weren't careful.

[nigelh]

Crab ... you have changed your tune . You are now effectively agreeing with me ! I don’t care which way the blades are going as it makes no difference.... you go light on the skids and it will tell you which pedal is needed . Simples . We don’t need to over complicate it . People should feel equally happy going from one type to another without having to think about putting in a certain pedal . I quite accept that some people , like you , will consciously think about which is power pedal etc but at the end of the day you put in what is required ... end of !! Anyway this is a bit a thread drift from what looked like a ham fisted lift off and no amount of pedal thinking was going to help him !

[[email protected]]

Crab ... you have changed your tune . You are now effectively agreeing with me ! I don’t care which way the blades are going as it makes no difference.

Not quite Nigel - you say you wait until it starts to yaw before applying pedal (any pedal?) - I suspect you don't. I still maintain that most pilots start to put the appropriate pedal in as soon as the lever starts to come up and then fine tune that pedal input as the aircraft gets lighter on the skids/wheels. That is the reason for the mental prompt and I only use it when going from one type to another.

The link to the thread is that this guy yawed left on take-off - whether he had too much left pedal or too much aft cyclic we don't know but a good and progressive take-off technique would surely have prevented this accident.

[haihio]

This is an interesting accident report that has some similarities to the R44 crash

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib...2-ec145-g-rmaa

The title is:

insufficient anti torque pedal in variable wind take off

[gulliBell]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

..whether he had too much left pedal or too much aft cyclic we don't know but a good and progressive take-off technique would surely have prevented this accident.

Yep. Every pilot should be proficient at taking off and landing at the aircraft weight limit, at the cross wind limit, at the CofG limits, and slope limits. And mixtures of combinations of any number of these things. Somehow I suspect some pilots experience few (or none) of these things prior to license qualification, and come the time early in their operational experience they are surprised by one of these challenges that is beyond their skill level. Or, just a simple case of brain fade which could happen to anybody.