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AW139 Crash in Bahamas - 7 Killed

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AW139 Crash in Bahamas - 7 Killed

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Old 26th Aug 2019, 01:29
  #441 (permalink)  
 
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The question is "who" as in which pilot was in which seat I believe!

Last edited by SASless; 26th Aug 2019 at 19:40.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 01:36
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Please correct me if I’m wrong was that not confirmed early on in the recovery/ investigation?
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 16:11
  #443 (permalink)  
 
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I bring this question for the sake of a discussion. I don't know the relationship between the owner and the pilot. I do however occasionally notice a pilot/CFI sitting in the other seat while the owner is flying the aircraft. I see it with helicopters and airplanes as well.

I could only find that everyone had died in the accident not who was sitting where

Again this is pure speculation.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 18:54
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There were 2 pilots. They were sitting up front.

The owner, his daughter and her friends were sitting in the back.
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Old 30th Nov 2019, 20:31
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Chris Cline Private Islands for sale, after a tragedy like that I doubt anyone connected to it would ever want to go back. I for one wouldn’t, very sad.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/private...on-11574870632
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Old 17th Dec 2019, 20:17
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I'm new here, and have been to Walker and Grand Cay area many times over many years.

Local rumor has it that the TR gearbox failed, as the pictures look, that the people watching the helicopter depart in the darkness heard a loud bang, but did not realize what it was and went back to bed.

Apparently there was a SB or AD pending on the gearbox. Does anybody here know?
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 05:32
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If it was a gearbox failure they would know by now and most certainly have issued an SB or AD. The loud bang that was heard was 12,000 lbs of (likely) serviceable helicopter traveling at high speed hit the water.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 11:33
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
If it was a gearbox failure they would know by now and most certainly have issued an SB or AD. The loud bang that was heard was 12,000 lbs of (likely) serviceable helicopter traveling at high speed hit the water.
A friend of mine who goes there frequently and knew some of the people showed me on his phone the text of either a proposed or existing AD. I have not followed up on my own.

I thought someone here might know more.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 21:32
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Originally Posted by EvaDestruction
A friend of mine who goes there frequently and knew some of the people showed me on his phone the text of either a proposed or existing AD. I have not followed up on my own.

I thought someone here might know more.
I do not know more, unfortunately, but suspect that your friend was more in the loop than most of us.
Certainly it is easier for me to believe that a mechanical failure doomed these people than that the experienced pilots lost awareness.
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 13:34
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NTSB Docket is out. Interesting comment on CVR transcript at 1:53:13.7 mark just before impact.
https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/h...=0&TXTSEARCHT=
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 14:26
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Originally Posted by wrench1
NTSB Docket is out. Interesting comment on CVR transcript at 1:53:13.7 mark just before impact.
https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/h...=0&TXTSEARCHT=
Not an easy read. What a sad loss: As many suspected, UFIT for the usual reasons.

SOPS? MCC? Private owners - read the litany of accidents that result from their lack and spend a bit more on training your crews! And live.
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 15:51
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Does a final report with conclusion exist? If yes where can i find it?
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 16:07
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Extraordinary. Ignoring the whole flight conduct fir now - the fact that the PIC describes that they’re making the same mistake as G-LABL just before they hit the water!
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 16:10
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Originally Posted by gmrwiz
Does a final report with conclusion exist? If yes where can i find it?
if you read the CVR and FDR reports I don’t think you need much more.
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 16:23
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Originally Posted by gmrwiz
Does a final report with conclusion exist?
The conclusion is, they made up the plan as they went along and eventually flew a serviceable helicopter into the water and killed everybody on-board. Knowing they were doing the same thing as somebody else who met a similar fate.
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 16:50
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Originally Posted by gmrwiz
Does a final report with conclusion exist? If yes where can i find it?
Not yet. They're still in the "factual" part of the investigation of which the released Docket above is a part. Next out will be a Factual Report then the Final Report with the Probable Cause will be released. But the Final could still be months out. After the Factual is released at some point they will post an estimated date of the Final Report release here:
https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.a...InvestRel.aspx
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 17:16
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Using the runway to get to V-mini and letting the autopilot do it's thing would have prevented this accident, IMO. Instead, whomever was flying got rushed, spatially disoriented, overrode the autopilot (not sure if they ever even reached V-mini, so it wouldn't have mattered) and did not reference the instruments.

The docket says the force trim release was engaged from TO to impact. The autopilot was probably never flying but it was set correctly set to indicated airspeed and heading.

The one pilot said he didn't want to use the hat for takeoff and also released the force trim. A terrible idea in those kind of WX conditions and the kind of takeoff it sounds like they used. They also probably felt rushed because of the situation with sick passengers needing medical attention. Everything lined up for a tragic outcome.

I don't understand why the pilot monitoring pretty much just watched the whole thing happen.
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 18:05
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How did either of them hold a licence? The good ole boys do helicopter flying.........

Unprofessional doesn't even start to describe it - what a senseless waste of lives.
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 18:08
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
How did either of them hold a licence? The good ole boys do helicopter flying.........

Unprofessional doesn't even start to describe it - what a senseless waste of lives.
Seems a bit harsh but not performing a standard instrument takeoff in those conditions was beyond stupid.
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 18:42
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Originally Posted by helonorth
Using the runway to get to V-mini and letting the autopilot do it's thing would have prevented this accident, IMO. Instead, whomever was flying got rushed, spatially disoriented, overrode the autopilot (not sure if they ever even reached V-mini, so it wouldn't have mattered) and did not reference the instruments.

The docket says the force trim release was engaged from TO to impact. The autopilot was probably never flying but it was set correctly set to indicated airspeed and heading.

The one pilot said he didn't want to use the hat for takeoff and also released the force trim. A terrible idea in those kind of WX conditions and the kind of takeoff it sounds like they used. They also probably felt rushed because of the situation with sick passengers needing medical attention. Everything lined up for a tragic outcome.

I don't understand why the pilot monitoring pretty much just watched the whole thing happen.

Clearly taking off from the runway is always the best option if available. But they were there illegally as the airport was closed, with pad, taxiway and runway lighting switched off. From the transcript it sounds like they were able to identify the tower from obstacle lights on it and they had some help on the ground providing lighting guidance to the pad. So the question is which illegal approach and departure with only on-board lighting and maybe golf cart lights would be safest…. trick question.

Taking off with the FTR on the cyclic depressed is normal enough. The power is set, a profile is flown to achieve a safe airspeed (40-50 KIAS), then released. The AW139 is really stable and will continue to fly the attitude hands and feet free without any further AFCS mode engagement (although clearly best practice). All CAT A profiles then ensure a climb and acceleration to at least Vy. Safe. Really safe. That‘s why commercial operators fly them.

The PM didn’t intervene because he wan’t one. This was two single pilots who didn’t plan (or even brief) either the approach or departure properly. Nothing was ever agreed. So at what point does the PM notice a deviation, when there is no standard or plan? If they had flown a defined CAT A pad departure from the pad, that both understood, and were practiced in, then the outcome would surely have been very different. And there is another of the lamentable parallels with the G-LABL accident. The PNFs insight before impact was needed whilst they were still on the ground.
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