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EC135 training helicopter crashed in a corn field in Germany

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EC135 training helicopter crashed in a corn field in Germany

Old 1st Jul 2019, 18:08
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EC135 training helicopter crashed in a corn field in Germany

The helicopter crashed with two people on board in a corn field.A female pilot died, the other pilot survives. As a result of the crash a cornfield burned. Sorry, i can not insert a link..

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Old 1st Jul 2019, 19:46
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Its was an Army EC135 from the nearby (30 km) training facility (Bückeburg).
Pilot burned with helicopter, instructor got thrown out and was injured and transported to Hospital
rumors are low flying excercise
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 11:54
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Any news Bull?
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 13:44
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Both pilots had around 450 FH and were in training to become instructor pilots (FAIP).
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 15:25
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Heard the same: two FI(H) applicants on a "stick buddy" mission. RIP

Last edited by Spunk; 2nd Jul 2019 at 15:26. Reason: spelling error
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 18:03
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Originally Posted by Praet View Post
Both pilots had around 450 FH and were in training to become instructor pilots (FAIP).
What does 450 FH mean ?
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 18:09
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Originally Posted by haihio View Post


What does 450 FH mean ?
450 flight hours....
Accident happened on a low flying route, where low flying down to 3 meters (10 feet) is allowed.
Flying that low at speed it sometimes requires to lift the nose before a turn cause otherwise the rotorblades might touch the ground.... but that’s just speculation.
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 20:09
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Originally Posted by Flying Bull View Post


450 flight hours....
Accident happened on a low flying route, where low flying down to 3 meters (10 feet) is allowed.
Flying that low at speed it sometimes requires to lift the nose before a turn cause otherwise the rotorblades might touch the ground.... but that’s just speculation.

Thanks for clarifying that. Very junior pilots then.
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 21:06
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450h is not that junior in my book for a trainee. For an instructor it certainly is. That both had about the same is somewhat baffling. I guess we are missing some piece of the puzzle.
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 22:51
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Things can easily go wrong on this type of flight. Learning how to instruct puts different pressures on pilots and the learning curve is very steep. For example:

Early on during my QHI course, in the early 1980s, I was flying an RAF Gazelle on a mutual sortie with my Navy stick buddy, who had previously shown himself to be a pilot who often flew in a "highly spirited fashion". Until that time, both of us were used to flying single pilot.

To cut a long story short, he was supposed to be acting as my student and after demonstrating whatever manoeuvre it was we were teaching / practicing ( I can't remember now what that was, it was 35 years ago), I gave him control. A few seconds later, the nose went down and the speed increased markedly as advertised then the nose came up very sharply and I thought my "stude" was bored again and about to show me (again) how the Navy flew a wingover. However, as the aircraft went well beyond 90 degrees nose up, I began to think "What the Hell is he doing...?" I looked across at him, only to see him looking across at me with a strange look on his face and at that point we both realised that neither of us was actually flying the aircraft and that it was about to loop all by itself. We both said the same word beginning with "S" and we both grabbed the controls. Thankfully, we both decided that a roll off the top was the best way out of this rather extreme "U. P." and we both decided to roll the same way. We learned quite a lot about being an instructor that day.

Edit: Just checked my old logbook - at that time I had about a thousand hours more than these unfortunate pilots appear to have had.

Last edited by ShyTorque; 2nd Jul 2019 at 23:03.
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Old 3rd Jul 2019, 05:54
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Say 200 - 250 hours to go through basic and advanced flying training - that leaves 200 hours of 'experience' before training as an instructor. That would be very unusual in the British Military RW world but 'Creamy' FW pilots are often taken straight out of the training system to become QFIs.

Perhaps the German Army has a similar system to the 'Creamy' one - they are called creamy's because they are supposed to be the cream at the top and are skimmed off.

In my experience many are p*ssed off because they get left behind in the training system while their (theoretically not so able) mates go on to front-line.
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Old 3rd Jul 2019, 06:23
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We are talking of the german army.
3/4 of their helicopters (well talking about Tigers and CH53 not EC135) are real estate and not airworthy.
I have yet to meet an helicopter pilot who does not complain to get more than the bare minimum flight time.
That's the state of affairs here. They have an army of McKinsey consultants to pay.

Last edited by BDAttitude; 3rd Jul 2019 at 07:20.
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Old 3rd Jul 2019, 14:03
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BDA, how times change. At the Hanover Airshow in 1982, the HEER attended with a CH-53G. I looked it over closely and you know-it looked like it came off the production line-absolutely spotless and in the charge of a Leutnant, who was personally assigned to that tail number.

As to this thread, Sergei Sikorsky was there and arranged for Karl Zimmerman to get a demo ride in the UH-60 we had there. It was supposed to be a pilot demo in which we would demonstrate, and then have the guest pilot take a turn in flying to pretty much the approved envelope limits. BUT, Sergei then seated himself in the back, followed by Karl’s spouse and child, one of our Marketing guys and several other “ guests “. The pilot demo was obviously off, but after getting us out of the airport zone, I handed the controls to Karl, and planned on talking him thru a docile flight that wouldn’t require the use of the barf bags we always had along. After a few minutes of gentle turns etc, Karl descended toward an open farmers field, then proceeded to kick the speed up to 130+ and at 15 ft or so, he talked me thru what he did on a BO-105 anti tank training flight, as we sped along, between tree lines etc. I was sitting on the edge of the seat with my hands lightly on the controls...in case. Karl looked over at my concern, smiled, and said on the intercom “ John, you really ought to try this sometime “. One of the seemingly longest flights I can recall.

The beauty and combined technical excellence with ballet-like artistry demonstrated every day by Karl at that show in his 105 acrobatic demo is a whole different subject. That flight described above was a set-up for the sort of event this thread addresses.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 07:03
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Maybe they were going for a forced landing - Engine off or something and mistakenly took the top of the corn to be the ground. Speculation but been done before
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 09:30
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Have a buddy who was in helo maintenance at said army school. German army pilots have flown less than 100h a year for a good while now. Around 2010 they pushed many of the last 2000+ instructors into resigning or early retirement - not enough airworthy ac and not enough money for hours.

Not saying these two poor souls where not good pilots, not saying FAIP doesn’t work. But 450h, 1/3 of it in sim according to some sources? I am pretty sure most flyers would prefer to become seasoned operational pilots before assigned to school.

In the end it’s austerity. Everyone who is in any real life role, be it an army pilot or a nurse or a train driver, knows it: paper pushers deny the worth of slow grown real life experience and think they can withdraw funding for those who are out there every day. Their practical training, their maintenance intervals, their salaries, it’s all up for degradation all the time to save cost at all cost. But no e-learning and no raw talent will ever replace giving professional people what they need to do their jobs: good gear, time to grow and an appropriate pay.

Somebody mentioned it: German MoD in house decision making was replaced by McKinsey consultants. Tax money (billions literally) is plundered and cannonballed into consultancy and corporations but pilots can’t get a thousand operational hours. Same for all other public services.

Did I mention the minister who installed McK is von der Leyen who is set to lead the EU commission? Watch out for so much more to come. Oh, and her son is - a US McKinsey partner. So disgusting. These people are extremists, and for some they are deadly.

Edit: hope the dead pilot was knocked unconscious for she burned up in her seat.

Last edited by Krautwald; 4th Jul 2019 at 09:44.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 14:59
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Great post Krautwald - neatly sums up the problem with letting accountants rule the world - cost comes before everything else regardless of the longer term impact.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 15:05
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Great post Krautwald - neatly sums up the problem with letting accountants rule the world - cost comes before everything else regardless of the longer term impact.

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Old 4th Jul 2019, 17:00
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https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/niede...rauber718.html

25 and 26!
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 18:00
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A bit over a year old, but this article informs as to the existing conditions:

https://www.dw.com/en/1-in-10-german...ime/a-43646369
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 20:19
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I still can‘t believe that anybody considers a helicopter pilot with a total time of 450 hours to be very experienced. Ignorance or arrogance?
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