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NYC helicopter crash 10th June 2019

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NYC helicopter crash 10th June 2019

Old 12th Jun 2019, 19:26
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dragon6172 View Post
1335 local reported weather at Linden, NJ airport was 1.5 miles, 600 overcast with drizzle, wind calm.
I was on the ground at Linden airport all day Monday. There were almost no aircraft flying, and the WX was indeed miserable. Driving home from work over the Verrazano Bridge, I was entirely in fog and had trouble reading exit signs over the highway.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 19:43
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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In that case, why launch from the safely parked position if the destination was 1.5/600 overcast with drizzle? Seems very odd.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 21:24
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
In that case, why launch from the safely parked position if the destination was 1.5/600 overcast with drizzle? Seems very odd.
That my friend is the sixty-four thousand dollar queston!
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 00:14
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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In that case, why launch from the safely parked position if the destination was 1.5/600 overcast with drizzle? Seems very odd.
Gethomeitis?, casualties are many.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 08:24
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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It would appear he successfully dived to recover once so perhaps he thought he could get away with it again...
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 10:14
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chopjock View Post
It would appear he successfully dived to recover once so perhaps he thought he could get away with it again...
Pretty sure it was the other way around - he recovered from the dive (that would have been the result of loss of control in IMC)
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 10:34
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chopjock View Post
It would appear he successfully dived to recover once so perhaps he thought he could get away with it again...
Oh my goodness, although we will never know his decision making process to think one of getting away with again send chills down my spine. It must have been a terrifying realization he would not get away with it the second time. RIP
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 11:17
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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FAA say pilot should not have been flying.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-been-n1016041

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Old 13th Jun 2019, 11:18
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Reading some of the posts here reminds me of an old Greek Proverb....."I should smell my hand and know what you are thinking!".

Not one of you are ever going to know what the poor guy was thinking......not ever.

Stick to noting facts....information that is un-ambiguous....and if you insist....offer an opinion on that.

I used to believe Aviators had analytical makeups.....but it appears the gene pool has been contaminated somehow.

Is that a byproduct of people learning to fly on Robinsons instead fo helicopters I wonder.


This folks is absolutely not how to represent our Industry:


Barbara Kaiser, an aviation expert with the training and safety firm Rotor World, said that a ban on nonemergency air traffic was a good way to keep pilots without proper training from causing “collateral damage.”

“It could have been a thousand times worse,” she said.
Look up this outfit and make use of their contact info to tell them what "You" think about her comment.

Last edited by SASless; 13th Jun 2019 at 11:34.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 11:52
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Stick to noting facts....information that is un-ambiguous....and if you insist....offer an opinion on that.
We still don't know if this pilot had a medical problem (and might not ever, depending on the condition of the remains). It is hard to fathom how someone who passed a commercial pilot checkride and was operating a helicopter of that caliber could make such poor choices. It seems more likely such a pilot would happily scud run (probably legally, 1/2 mile and clear of clouds and all that, and tell me nobody here hasn't done that) and run into a sailboat mast than assertively climb into the mung, twice (at least).

Is that a byproduct of people learning to fly on Robinsons instead fo helicopters I wonder.
It's a legitimate point to consider but I wish you would present it in a less juvenile way. Regardless, I disagree. Indeed, it is generally the opposite, because you are taught to fly rather conservatively, with greater respect for weather, wind, turbulence, density altitude, and so on. Because you have to in a Robinson. On the other hand, from the sidelines (because I will be forever stuck in Robinson-land) I have seen some evidence that when folks transition into their first turbine gig they get a little drunk with power, so to speak, doing a lot of max. performance departures, etc., etc. There could be some feeling of invulnerability there given the vast difference in performance. While that might lead to certain types of bad outcomes, it should still not play into IMC related negligence.

This folks is absolutely not how to represent our Industry
Referring to Kaiser's statement: definitely agree with you on that!!!
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 12:11
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Look up this outfit and make use of their contact info to tell them what "You" think about her comment.
Maybe. But before saying too much, just check who she's married to. He's probably not a guy you wanna upset.

https://www.unionleader.com/news/hea...05b3c66ad.html

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Old 13th Jun 2019, 12:14
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aa777888 View Post
We still don't know if this pilot had a medical problem...
It's the only half-sensible explanation.

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Old 13th Jun 2019, 12:33
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Gulli,

He is a remarkable fellow no doubt.

But if you know SEAL's you understand they know the value of critiques.

They also understand making sure the community looks after its image.

The American Helicopter Industry (as this tragedy occurred in the United States) has an image problem in general, the EMS industry for sure does

His Wife's comments, if quoted correctly (as I noted in my first post on this) certainly does. not help in promoting our Industry....does it?

I suggested to them she ensure she was correctly quoted by the media and take measures to correct them if they were relay correctly what she was trying to say.

Earlier in the Thread I pointed out how lame the American Media is...and posted the example of how shallow they are.

I wonder if her Hubby and I were in Mogadishu at the same time....I probably came after his time.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 14:40
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aa777888 View Post
It's a legitimate point to consider but I wish you would present it in a less juvenile way. Regardless, I disagree. Indeed, it is generally the opposite, because you are taught to fly rather conservatively, with greater respect for weather, wind, turbulence, density altitude, and so on. Because you have to in a Robinson.
To use an accident involving a 109 to further the juvenille Robbophobia amongst the internet experts is just a testament to the true character of these types!


On the other hand, from the sidelines (because I will be forever stuck in Robinson-land) I have seen some evidence that when folks transition into their first turbine gig they get a little drunk with power, so to speak, doing a lot of max. performance departures, etc., etc. There could be some feeling of invulnerability there given the vast difference in performance. While that might lead to certain types of bad outcomes, it should still not play into IMC related negligence.
This was not my exerience when I climbed into my first turbine,...or second.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 15:08
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Robbiee, you really do have a chip on your shoulder....get over it.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 15:19
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Robbiee View Post
That my friend is the sixty-four thousand dollar queston!
Could have been motivated by money. There is very little ramp space at any of the Heliports on Manhattan so they do not want you to park there. It is mainly a drop off and leave environment. I am told that the parking rate is $100 for every 15 minutes. He was already parked there for four hours.

Many things can lead people into making poor decisions.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 15:24
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aa777888 View Post
We still don't know if this pilot had a medical problem (and might not ever, depending on the condition of the remains). It is hard to fathom how someone who passed a commercial pilot checkride and was operating a helicopter of that caliber could make such poor choices. It seems more likely such a pilot would happily scud run (probably legally, 1/2 mile and clear of clouds and all that, and tell me nobody here hasn't done that) and run into a sailboat mast than assertively climb into the mung, twice (at least).
A review of his information on the FAA registry indicates that he had a special issuance medical. At his age that could be for a number of things but it is something to consider. The stress he was under could have triggered a medical event.

There was very little left of the helicopter. It was quite an inferno up there and there is very little left. The only recognizable thing is a small section of tail boom. I doubt they will be able to determine much from the remains. He was essentially cremated.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 15:37
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Is low level airspace (below 1300') departing E34th class G? I'm almost sure there are helicopter routing conventions published, anybody have them at hand? Seems easy enough with the weather reported and as seen in the videos for local experienced pilot to takeoff, follow the east river down, hopping over the bridges, past the Statue of Liberty, and around the south side of EWR to get into Linden. You guys can call it scud running, but most of the VFR world gets around that way, legal limit is 1/2 mile and clear of cloud, practically I like a little more with the obstructions around, and the conditions were well above that. And good luck trying to do the same thing IFR in NYC airspace, Linden only has an RNAV approach and the limits are higher than you'd need to "scud run" (love that expression, probably coined by Phoenix AZ pilots that once saw a cloud in the sky). Why the hell would he be climbing up into cloud and turning inland instead of following the river?

Hey SASless, I was in Mog in '94.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 15:47
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Hey SASless, I was in Mog in '94.
PM sent just now.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 16:23
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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If indeed he was heading to Linden - seems to be a strange direction to go.

Out of 34th down the East River over the bridges to the Verrazano and then South and up the river to Linden.

SkyVector has the NYC Heli charts for review.
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