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Massive cruise ship evacuation off Norway March 2019

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Massive cruise ship evacuation off Norway March 2019

Old 24th Mar 2019, 18:46
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Re the lifeboats: from other sites in contact with people onboard, the problem was that the seas were too rough to allow deployment of the lifeboats. I've found it difficult to enter the tenders when the seas are just a few feet, let alone 30-40 feet. I believe that's why the captain decided to evacuate by helo. There were risks to all the alternatives. If he had kept everyone aboard, then the ship foundered on the rocks, the losses would have been massive.

There is a live webcam in Molde, Norway, showing the Sky safely tied up. Harrowing experience for those aboard, but disaster averted. I can't imagine anyone handling this situation better than Norwegians.
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 19:14
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Grey

I do agree
Fire is the worst
If You want to have a nightmare google Scandinavian Star-
I lost a dear friend there.

Now
Yes there is enough life boats , tenders and life rafts for all.
BUT
I shall get the Draft ( Nautical map) for Hustavika and we will most likely find 50 to 150 meters depth less then 50 to 150 meters from the svaberg ( The ice bulldozed every bolder and loose materiel out in Norske-renna)
So , potentially, we could have had a wreak today submerged there joining the hundred of others that have pushed the luck on this coast-line.
With an average age of 75 on the Pax this could have been nasty.
Keep in mind waves over 8 meters hammering this ship onto the granite and a 45 kts xwind!

I suspect it was the anchors and the restart of one of the 4 engines that saved the day.
This was a stern warning from Murphy.

Ps
Hurtigruten, the smaller , but MORE seaworthy coastal steamer that runs Bergen - Hammerfest the last , ah, say 130 years, said: Thanks , But , No thanks and stopped for a few hrs. Rare !
Some seriously hardy Commanders there!
Again
All RotorHeads SAR.and Medevac.
You are fantastic, especially 330Sqd and the CHC chaps last night!
Regards
Cpt B

Last edited by BluSdUp; 24th Mar 2019 at 19:28.
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 19:42
  #43 (permalink)  
Ant
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How could all 4 diesel engines be knocked out at the same time? Fuel contamination maybe?
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 21:22
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Propulsion is diesel-electric which means that all engine-generators are kept at same revolutions and share their power on a common bus.
When one engine breaks down, the others can get overloaded if users other than propulsion are not switched-off quickly enough (automatic).
overloaded engines fall down in revolutions and are shut-off the common bus automatically.

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Old 25th Mar 2019, 00:49
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Much respect to the drivers and crews of the machines involved.
That looks like `orrible seas and very strong winds - utterly foul weather.
Remarkable to see a couple of helicopters keeping station rock steady, just above the ship, even if aided by technology!
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 01:12
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Self loading bear View Post
Propulsion is diesel-electric which means that all engine-generators are kept at same revolutions and share their power on a common bus.
When one engine breaks down, the others can get overloaded if users other than propulsion are not switched-off quickly enough (automatic).
overloaded engines fall down in revolutions and are shut-off the common bus automatically.
Admittedly I know nothing about marine diesel-electric propulsion systems, but surely loss of one engine, even if it led to cascading trip off-line for the other overloaded engines would still leave you three running engines that can be brought back on-line fairly sharpish with reduced load.
And I'd have thought that for such a critical function there would be automatic load shedding for non-critical feeders anyway.

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Old 25th Mar 2019, 02:09
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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There is a H pad right on the bow
Are you sure, none of the photos show one, though the area is relatively clear. In the circumstances presented I wouldn't be winching from the bow.


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Old 25th Mar 2019, 07:00
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by John Eacott View Post
Maybe you could dial down the concern and accept that such decisions are made by professionals who have a fair degree of competence
That about covers it. 🤔
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 10:51
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ant View Post
How could all 4 diesel engines be knocked out at the same time? Fuel contamination maybe?
I am not sure whether all 4 went out, I thought it was 3 out of 4. However (think of B747 too) one engine only is not enough in rough waters and wind. Long time ago a 4-engine very large navy ship has suffered a similar problem leaving one engine only and they quickly realised one engine is not enough - not just to keep the position against the tide but also without sufficient speed like 5kn+ the ship cannot be controlled by the rudder and they were rather quickly approaching a rocky coast in Med. The day was saved by mechanics who managed to get the second engine online shortly before impact.
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 10:51
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WingNut60 View Post
Admittedly I know nothing about marine diesel-electric propulsion systems, but surely loss of one engine, even if it led to cascading trip off-line for the other overloaded engines would still leave you three running engines that can be brought back on-line fairly sharpish with reduced load.
And I'd have thought that for such a critical function there would be automatic load shedding for non-critical feeders anyway.
Correct, that is how it is programmed to work.
But did it work that way?

More problems can be experienced when you have the Main propulsion proppelors with controllable pitch propellors connected to one side of the Main engine and the generator on the other side of the Main engine.
If propellors come above waterlevel due to waves. It will be difficult to control constant revolutions.
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 13:46
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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In reply to Ant. If you lose one or more 4 engines on a diesel electric setup you can very quickly get into an overload situation. Automatic controls start shedding loads. One of the "preferential" trips that would go offline is the stabilisers as you don't need them to navigate the ship Do you..? Now you have no stabilisers in a ship with no propulsion and and its in 40kt beam winds and you start rolling horrifically. A quite feasible scenario is that air gets into the fuel system and there goes your other 2 gens. Now you are on emergency generators which literally give the barest minimum ie steering and navigational controls and maybe 1 anchor winch. Not much you can do but try and get the air out of the fuel system and get those Diesel Electric Generators started and get propulsion back so you can turn into the wind and waves.... but hang on you are rolling so much (because you don't have enough power to run the stabilisers) that you cant get the fuel system bled... Groundhog moment for everyone...! As a captain on commercial vessels I was taught that the best lifeboat you have is the one you are on, and not to leave it unless your life is threatened or you are in very dire trouble. El Capitano must have been very worried to ask for an evacuation. The decision would not have been made lightly considering the actual weather conditions at the time.
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 15:43
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GrayHorizonsHeli View Post
Theres one good thing about the need to evacuate such a large ship...there generally is alot of time available. They don't sink like a brick.

Other than taking on water, my biggest fear would be a fire. Panic sets in faster with a fire.

Do the life boats have enough capacity these days for all the passengers? Or do the crew of the ship cull out the weak and unstable, so the strong can survive??
In this case, were they actively using/loading the lifeboats at the time the helicopters were plucking people from the deck?
The Estonia sank in minutes - OK she was a big ferry but was huge and almost like a liner with most pax asleep in their cabins - massive storm and took on water - went over in minutes - almost 900 lost - no life boats launched nor would they have survived the sea conditions -
Same as this one - unable to launch the boats due the sea state, 10m waves and high winds
The crew tried in vain to make ready the boats but had to abandon that - had the ship run aground then the only way off would have been Heli's for all - as long as she stayed upright and not turned over...

This was a close call indeed -

Re number of boats per pax on board new ships - Viking sky had 6 x 150 seat life boats - certainly not quite enough for all the crew and pax - But loads of life rafts are fitted
there are not quite enough spots in life boats but with all the life rafts there is more than enough. But in those conditions this weekend they would have been useless
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 15:52
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
Are you sure, none of the photos show one, though the area is relatively clear. In the circumstances presented I wouldn't be winching from the bow.



you can see the H pad area on the bow in this photo - it may just be a winch up area and not a hard stand - but the airlift this weekend was from the very top decks near the funnel.
Had anyone been on the bow they would have been swept away

https://cruiseweb.com/cruise-lines/v...hip-viking-sky


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Old 25th Mar 2019, 20:58
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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SASless - the boat you refer to "only" has 571 pax onboard - which is probably the equivalent of a dreamliner going in!
I'm talking "massive" .
Look at Harmony of the Seas, at 226,000 tonnes and 5400 pax!!! God forbid this being holed below the waterline with a substantial IED. Wouldn't take long to go down, I suspect!! Say 500 miles offshore - no helo can reach it?
What then. Lifeboat capacity to cater for 125% of pax, but to what avail? SS8 or 9 would savage those boats. Scary!!!!

Makes 9/11 look like a walk in the park.

The more I think about it, the more I think, this predicament hasn't been thought out to a +ve conclusion. Best stick close to the shore, better still, forget cruising
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 22:04
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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The Terrorists only have to get it right once......Intelligence/Security forces cannot guard every possible target or prevent every kind of attack.


Think about a single dirty bomb on any busy Motorway in the UK or say the Forth Bridge or at Heathrow Airport.

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Old 26th Mar 2019, 00:40
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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you can see the H pad area on the bow in this photo
Unfortunately that is a drawing/painting, not a photo. I'm unable on any actual photo of the ship to see a designated helo spot at the bow.
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 08:36
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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so instead of winching, what about lifting a big solid basket type thing onto the heli deck. people walk in, far quicker than you can winch, then haul them off to the nearest bit of ground where they can be unloaded and then shuttled from there by other helicopters. you would get the pax unloaded way faster than winching.

Yes they are on a hook, but put a safety strap through the body and get into it.
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 08:57
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Fly pallets

Originally Posted by SuperF View Post
so instead of winching, what about lifting a big solid basket type thing onto the heli deck. people walk in, far quicker than you can winch, then haul them off to the nearest bit of ground where they can be unloaded and then shuttled from there by other helicopters. you would get the pax unloaded way faster than winching.

Yes they are on a hook, but put a safety strap through the body and get into it.
I invented that concept in the Beaufort Sea in the early '80's.

We used what we called "fly pallets" to haul stuff that wasn't easily slung.

We got the bright idea that this kit could be used for rescuing folks in the water.

We did all of our 212/61/76 slinging vertical ref in those days so we were pretty practiced up.

Scoop them up like jellyfish, easy money.

I only used it once in anger (crashed Twootter).

It was planned to be used with our '61's but I was flying a '76 (IMG) at the time.

It worked just dandy.

Don McKenzie, OKie's Chief Pilot, was with me that day.

Last edited by Old Dogs; 26th Mar 2019 at 09:17.
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 10:22
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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what about lifting a big solid basket type thing onto the heli deck. people walk in
I can just imagine how that would fly with people running away from the windy end.
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 11:16
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Old Dogs,
I remember that day in Tuk I was there with Quasar, our pilots went out with the 214ST trying to rescue people from the Twooter in a life raft and when the aircraft was close to them and all the down wash the people were waving the helicopter away afraid the life raft would capsize.

Sorry , did not mean to thread drift. Congrats to all involved in the massive rescue in Norway , job well done.
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