Britbashing
Tropicopter....
I feel compelled to correct one of your misconceptions about the origins of the USA....we did not flee the old country...by force of arms, we defeated your army and navy and won our independence from an abusive government. As a direct result of that defeat and surrender of forces, your government was forced to withdraw its forces and return them to other areas of the empire.
Many of our early settlers had indeed fled from religious persecution in Europe and settled in the colonies. That is why we have within our Bill of Rights, an article(amendment) that prohibits a "state sponsored or state created religion".
Many of our states have laws that are derived from the English common law and actually still have cites to those laws although it is becoming more common for the modern law to be less tied to those conventions. Also, the laws in Louisana owe more to the French influence of that region than to the English common law. The laws in the Spanish or Mexican areas of the US are also derived in great part from those cultures as well.
One of the philosophical changes is the "Victim's Rights" movement which is slowly changing the concept of violent crime being a violation of the peace and dignity of the state (read Crown) and making it a crime against the person of the victim whereas the old common law made it a property crime against the Crown. (as during the days when serfs were considered property of the Crown).
I feel compelled to correct one of your misconceptions about the origins of the USA....we did not flee the old country...by force of arms, we defeated your army and navy and won our independence from an abusive government. As a direct result of that defeat and surrender of forces, your government was forced to withdraw its forces and return them to other areas of the empire.
Many of our early settlers had indeed fled from religious persecution in Europe and settled in the colonies. That is why we have within our Bill of Rights, an article(amendment) that prohibits a "state sponsored or state created religion".
Many of our states have laws that are derived from the English common law and actually still have cites to those laws although it is becoming more common for the modern law to be less tied to those conventions. Also, the laws in Louisana owe more to the French influence of that region than to the English common law. The laws in the Spanish or Mexican areas of the US are also derived in great part from those cultures as well.
One of the philosophical changes is the "Victim's Rights" movement which is slowly changing the concept of violent crime being a violation of the peace and dignity of the state (read Crown) and making it a crime against the person of the victim whereas the old common law made it a property crime against the Crown. (as during the days when serfs were considered property of the Crown).
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Thanks for that SASless - the detail of history never was my strong point.
Interesting point you make about we have within our Bill of Rights, an article(amendment) that prohibits a "state sponsored or state created religion" in view of the Ruling that the California federal judges made only a few weeks ago, that the words "one nation under God", in the Pledge of Allegiance infringe the constitutional spearation of church and state. Do you agree with the view that this means that the words "In God We Trust" should be removed from every dollar bill?
Interesting point you make about we have within our Bill of Rights, an article(amendment) that prohibits a "state sponsored or state created religion" in view of the Ruling that the California federal judges made only a few weeks ago, that the words "one nation under God", in the Pledge of Allegiance infringe the constitutional spearation of church and state. Do you agree with the view that this means that the words "In God We Trust" should be removed from every dollar bill?
Tropicopter....
The founding fathers freely mentioned the concept of a nation being "under God" and did so in many documents. My interpetation of the intent of the Constitution and Bill of Rights is that there would be no " state sponsored religion " ,meaning a particular sect, or form of religious doctrine and ritual.
I am not supportive of the judge's decision as it is written.....and if you read the facts of the case, most reasonable people would not support it either. The case stems from a doctor suing the government over his concern that his third grade daughter (being raised in his atheistic home) was being unfairly discriminated against by being exposed to the pledge of allegiance to the flag while in school. He said she felt intimidated and was coecrced into saying the pledge.
Somehow, the image of big burly cops, standing over the child with sticks or something, making her repeat this horrible pledge just doesn't seem to ring true. All he had to do was approach the school board and request that she not have to uttter those offensive words...."under God".
If she wanted , all she had to do was remain silent and state she objected on grounds that she was an atheist and the school would not have persisted. This was a radical using our system to further his political cause. Do you reasonably think a second or third grade child can formulate this concept of "God" or have a driving need to be an "atheist" or was this more her father being the individual involved here.
I watched an interview of this idiot on the Telly....and was impressed with him no end. He spent 3,000 hours of work doing the suit....and now intends to pursue other issues along the same line. Even the interviewer was ....how I can say it....errrr...disdainful of the good doctor's motives, explanations, and cause.
One must also recall, the circuit court in California is the most liberal in the country and the decision is subject to review by the Supreme Court. Also, the court has reconsidered its decision in the aftermath of all the uproar the decision caused.
So the answer is "NO"....leave the currency alone...leave the pledge alone....leave the school kid alone....if you believe in "God" fine, if you do not..."Fine..." That is what religious freedom is all about......not a freedom "from" religion.
The founding fathers freely mentioned the concept of a nation being "under God" and did so in many documents. My interpetation of the intent of the Constitution and Bill of Rights is that there would be no " state sponsored religion " ,meaning a particular sect, or form of religious doctrine and ritual.
I am not supportive of the judge's decision as it is written.....and if you read the facts of the case, most reasonable people would not support it either. The case stems from a doctor suing the government over his concern that his third grade daughter (being raised in his atheistic home) was being unfairly discriminated against by being exposed to the pledge of allegiance to the flag while in school. He said she felt intimidated and was coecrced into saying the pledge.
Somehow, the image of big burly cops, standing over the child with sticks or something, making her repeat this horrible pledge just doesn't seem to ring true. All he had to do was approach the school board and request that she not have to uttter those offensive words...."under God".
If she wanted , all she had to do was remain silent and state she objected on grounds that she was an atheist and the school would not have persisted. This was a radical using our system to further his political cause. Do you reasonably think a second or third grade child can formulate this concept of "God" or have a driving need to be an "atheist" or was this more her father being the individual involved here.
I watched an interview of this idiot on the Telly....and was impressed with him no end. He spent 3,000 hours of work doing the suit....and now intends to pursue other issues along the same line. Even the interviewer was ....how I can say it....errrr...disdainful of the good doctor's motives, explanations, and cause.
One must also recall, the circuit court in California is the most liberal in the country and the decision is subject to review by the Supreme Court. Also, the court has reconsidered its decision in the aftermath of all the uproar the decision caused.
So the answer is "NO"....leave the currency alone...leave the pledge alone....leave the school kid alone....if you believe in "God" fine, if you do not..."Fine..." That is what religious freedom is all about......not a freedom "from" religion.
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AND ANOTHER THING...
... I do believe in God, the Pledge of Allegiance, One Nation Under God and all of the rest. Therefore, I suggest this: anyone out there who can't stand having those terrible words; "In God We Trust" on their currency can package all of it up and send it to me. Any denominations or coinage welcome.
What the hell, while we're at it - I'll accept guns and ammo too!
C Ya
... I do believe in God, the Pledge of Allegiance, One Nation Under God and all of the rest. Therefore, I suggest this: anyone out there who can't stand having those terrible words; "In God We Trust" on their currency can package all of it up and send it to me. Any denominations or coinage welcome.
What the hell, while we're at it - I'll accept guns and ammo too!
C Ya
Thread Starter
SASless you forgot 'by force of arms (and with the help of the French) we defeated your army and navy etc..'
It is sad that what was an economic dispute (taxing tea) was so poorly handled by the British government and could have been settled so simply. There must have been some lessons learned though - the British gave the East India company a monopoly on importing tea thus denying American merchants the ability to trade....this sort of business ethic is the same employed by the likes of Microsoft and IBM!!
It is sad that what was an economic dispute (taxing tea) was so poorly handled by the British government and could have been settled so simply. There must have been some lessons learned though - the British gave the East India company a monopoly on importing tea thus denying American merchants the ability to trade....this sort of business ethic is the same employed by the likes of Microsoft and IBM!!
Now Crab....you are edging towards another fuss.....please remember that you cannot expect much out of a race of people that try to make saltwater tea !
What an interesting thread... 
Unfortunately internet isn't so easy to get in some parts of the world and therefore we have no words from other nations.
And unfortunately the kings english isn't the the most proven language inside and outside helicopters in the most parts of the world. (JAA and FAA still working on that problem)
Ok, there are a lot of helojocks in the USA and UK, but if we have all the russians out here on the screen...
I have met and flown with some helicopter pilots from a lot of countrys (including russians
) but never seen such a discussion. Should this be a question of selfimagination... or is it a bad childhood trauma?
Praise the Lord!
i'm german
Unfortunately internet isn't so easy to get in some parts of the world and therefore we have no words from other nations.
And unfortunately the kings english isn't the the most proven language inside and outside helicopters in the most parts of the world. (JAA and FAA still working on that problem)
Ok, there are a lot of helojocks in the USA and UK, but if we have all the russians out here on the screen...
I have met and flown with some helicopter pilots from a lot of countrys (including russians
) but never seen such a discussion. Should this be a question of selfimagination... or is it a bad childhood trauma? Praise the Lord!
i'm german
Last edited by tecpilot; 4th Aug 2002 at 18:40.
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quote "A large number of Americans have German ancestors. More than 25% of U.S. Americans are either completely or partly of German descent. There was even some talk after the War of Independence about whether English or German should be the national language! '
". In 1902, proposed congressional legislation requiring the U.S. Government to use the metric system exclusively was defeated by a single vote. "
Hmm wonder what a German speaking Metric US would be like ,
". In 1902, proposed congressional legislation requiring the U.S. Government to use the metric system exclusively was defeated by a single vote. "
Hmm wonder what a German speaking Metric US would be like ,
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"a German speaking Metric US !!!!"
And then there are the french around the big river, the chinese and other yellow folk in the northwest (with all kinds off languages), Florida and SW has second language "Inglese",
most of the big money gets managed in hebrew, and as far as I understand Boing is building airliners in METRIC.
(Do they employ american indians? Do they still speak their native language? Is that Englisch?)
But then I might not understand it at all.............
3top
by the way, I am from Austria, but speak mainly spanish lately........at least I try to.........
And then there are the french around the big river, the chinese and other yellow folk in the northwest (with all kinds off languages), Florida and SW has second language "Inglese",
most of the big money gets managed in hebrew, and as far as I understand Boing is building airliners in METRIC.
(Do they employ american indians? Do they still speak their native language? Is that Englisch?)
But then I might not understand it at all.............
3topby the way, I am from Austria, but speak mainly spanish lately........at least I try to.........
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SASless,
We speak a common language, but we spell and say things in many different ways, we have some exceedingly moronic prats in our country as we also do in most of our political parties, some of our Royalty are the laughing stock of the entire universe, we drive on the wrong side of the road(according to the USA) and we brew the best beer in the world.
But if you look inwards to the USA it is mirror like, and your country also have a Major share of the morons and prats who occupy our planet, your president has great difficulty in stringing together more than three words, your military only like to fight battles from either zillions of miles high or out at sea, to top it all it is rumoured that the recipe for Budwieser was stolen from some European brewer mid last century, plus GB inc gave you the recipe for the jet engine and the fully flying tailplane? despite all this dont forget you were once one of our more troublesome colonies, who we decided to let go and rule themselve's
We speak a common language, but we spell and say things in many different ways, we have some exceedingly moronic prats in our country as we also do in most of our political parties, some of our Royalty are the laughing stock of the entire universe, we drive on the wrong side of the road(according to the USA) and we brew the best beer in the world.
But if you look inwards to the USA it is mirror like, and your country also have a Major share of the morons and prats who occupy our planet, your president has great difficulty in stringing together more than three words, your military only like to fight battles from either zillions of miles high or out at sea, to top it all it is rumoured that the recipe for Budwieser was stolen from some European brewer mid last century, plus GB inc gave you the recipe for the jet engine and the fully flying tailplane? despite all this dont forget you were once one of our more troublesome colonies, who we decided to let go and rule themselve's
VFR has his head in the clouds me thinks...
..but thanks very much for letting us go way back when.....of course we were only fighting the second string.....guess the Hessians lent some backbone to the Redcoated mob. You guys did much better the second time around....burned the White House for us....been some times during the last administration that I would like to have invited you back for an encore.
Granted our current President does seem to mumble his words and could not be confused with your great orator Churchill....but then didn't Winston have an American mother?
Please do not forget the angled flight deck or the Fresnel Lens landing system....also British inventions that the American navy has put to good use.....course there is not a lot of need for them in the British navy.
A very interesting place to visit in the USA is the Aviation and Space Museum in Washington, DC. The entry lobby is called the hall of firsts......amazing exhibit of the record makers....the Wright Brother's airplane, Lindbergh's Spirit of St. Louis, Apollo, Rutan's airplane, the X-1, neat stuff really.
As to fighting wars from space, the sea, or from zillions of miles away.....tell that to the troops in Afghanistan, or the Gulf War....or go check the American graveyards in your own country Normandy, Iwo Jima, or dozens of other places. As I recall, the British SAS, Australian SAS, Canadian SF and the American SOG troops are all in it together in Afghanistan.
Matter of fact .....you might reconsider your views....afterall you might be talking about kin folk....I did have several Uncles in England during WWII.....after all they were oversexed, overpaid and overthere.....the British were undersexed, underpaid, and under Eisenhower.
DNA testing could resolve that issue . Family reunions are held in July for the Cooper clan ,VFR....cousins are always welcome! Of course, depending upon his age....hmmmmm...might be a closer relation than I care to think about !
..but thanks very much for letting us go way back when.....of course we were only fighting the second string.....guess the Hessians lent some backbone to the Redcoated mob. You guys did much better the second time around....burned the White House for us....been some times during the last administration that I would like to have invited you back for an encore.
Granted our current President does seem to mumble his words and could not be confused with your great orator Churchill....but then didn't Winston have an American mother?
Please do not forget the angled flight deck or the Fresnel Lens landing system....also British inventions that the American navy has put to good use.....course there is not a lot of need for them in the British navy.
A very interesting place to visit in the USA is the Aviation and Space Museum in Washington, DC. The entry lobby is called the hall of firsts......amazing exhibit of the record makers....the Wright Brother's airplane, Lindbergh's Spirit of St. Louis, Apollo, Rutan's airplane, the X-1, neat stuff really.
As to fighting wars from space, the sea, or from zillions of miles away.....tell that to the troops in Afghanistan, or the Gulf War....or go check the American graveyards in your own country Normandy, Iwo Jima, or dozens of other places. As I recall, the British SAS, Australian SAS, Canadian SF and the American SOG troops are all in it together in Afghanistan.
Matter of fact .....you might reconsider your views....afterall you might be talking about kin folk....I did have several Uncles in England during WWII.....after all they were oversexed, overpaid and overthere.....the British were undersexed, underpaid, and under Eisenhower.
DNA testing could resolve that issue . Family reunions are held in July for the Cooper clan ,VFR....cousins are always welcome! Of course, depending upon his age....hmmmmm...might be a closer relation than I care to think about !
That's an rotorhead thread and i'm not interested in any burning (White) house. Ok, do you like the publicity or why don't use your own email?
Why don't you talk about the history of rotorcrafts?
Thanks to Mr. Cierva, Mr. Flettner, Mr. Achgelis and Mr. Sikorsky.
Couldn't count a brit or american...
Why don't you talk about the history of rotorcrafts?
Thanks to Mr. Cierva, Mr. Flettner, Mr. Achgelis and Mr. Sikorsky.
Couldn't count a brit or american...
Or.....a few guys like Kaman, Pieseckei, Bell.....and Sikorsky did his work in the USA....not Russia. The Russians also have a few guys who know something about building helicopters as well. Then there are the Italians, Germans, and the Japanese. Lots of people contribute to the success of the industry.
Tecpilot needs to read the entire thread and then form his post...the "history lesson" was in response to something that was said....and the consensus lately has been such "non-rotorcraft" issues sometimes work to generate interest and hopefully participation will improve as a result.
If you wish to discuss rotorcraft history....by all means start a thread....and if any interest exists out there...you will soon have an up and going thread.
Tecpilot needs to read the entire thread and then form his post...the "history lesson" was in response to something that was said....and the consensus lately has been such "non-rotorcraft" issues sometimes work to generate interest and hopefully participation will improve as a result.
If you wish to discuss rotorcraft history....by all means start a thread....and if any interest exists out there...you will soon have an up and going thread.
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tecpilot,
Don't get so testy! SASless is a professional helicopter pilot and the history of America does affect him - it made him an American for one thing! Anyway, the title of this thread is Britbashing and some of the history of the USA is very relevant to that. The thread isn't titled History of Brit rotorcraft bashing......
Don't get so testy! SASless is a professional helicopter pilot and the history of America does affect him - it made him an American for one thing! Anyway, the title of this thread is Britbashing and some of the history of the USA is very relevant to that. The thread isn't titled History of Brit rotorcraft bashing......
Tombola....you know what the three white rings around an American matelot's jumper sleeve cuff mean?
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However, too many Americans seem resentful of the fact that their predecessors supposedly fled an intolerable government to found a new country on the other side of the pond.
Btw, my predecessors didn't "supposedly" flee an intolerable government. You can be quite sure that they did, in fact flee, and that the Lenin's government was quite intolerable (and destined to get even more so). At the time, they wouldn't have tolerated two of my grandparents living -- their families were put against a wall and shot.
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I feel compelled to correct one of your misconceptions about the origins of the USA....we did not flee the old country...by force of arms, we defeated your army and navy and won our independence from an abusive government.