Bundeswehr orders H145 LUH SAR
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
Young Master Eacott....how dare you suggest SAR winching can be done using something other than a Strop.....have you not heard the wailing from some folks when any mention of the USCG and their Billy Pugh Basket gets made?
Then if one has the actual temerity to remind those folks that there is a modern concept called the "Rescue Swimmer" that LEAVES the Winch Wire and goes to the person needing rescue.....well Sir....indeed!
When that happens, the TV Remote gets dropped and cheeks arise from the Recliner in protest.
Then if one has the actual temerity to remind those folks that there is a modern concept called the "Rescue Swimmer" that LEAVES the Winch Wire and goes to the person needing rescue.....well Sir....indeed!
When that happens, the TV Remote gets dropped and cheeks arise from the Recliner in protest.
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: EGDC
Then if one has the actual temerity to remind those folks that there is a modern concept called the "Rescue Swimmer" that LEAVES the Winch Wire and goes to the person needing rescue.....well Sir....indeed!
FNW - I'll bow to your superior knowledge - I will ask more questions about the issues with the MFTS aircraft and winching training.
AC - you would do all of that ground and static winch training as a natural precursor to doing it live on the aircraft but the first time the student winchop does it with a real stretcher and all the associated hazards that provides, you want an instructor looking over his shoulder. Managing a spinning stretcher as you approach the skids is not something you want to learn on the fly.
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: In the mountains
How do you teach stretcher entry to the cabin or even double lift entry to the cabin?
Heli Rescue Hoist Trainer
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Germany
Others seem happy using a winch on H145
(Police BadenWürtemberg) for mountrescue
https://im.baden-wuerttemberg.de/de/...rubx3ZbO_wZiMg
(Police BadenWürtemberg) for mountrescue
https://im.baden-wuerttemberg.de/de/...rubx3ZbO_wZiMg
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: EGDC
FB - I did say it was fine for operations but questions had been asked about it in the training role.
Flyting - yes some of our guys have been to see that setup - very impressive.
Flyting - yes some of our guys have been to see that setup - very impressive.
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: GMT
Germany also ordered some H215 airframes for SAR, though my issue isn’t the choice of aircraft, either H215 or H145. What disappoints me, is this spend on primarily German products, is no doubt part of the plot to lift German defence spending towards the NATO minimum, whilst enhancing a domestic capability which adds nothing, capability wise, to the NATO orbat.
Personally, I’d let Putin have Germany, rather than see another Brit, American, Canadian or other nationality soldier die on their behalf... because that’s where this will end.
Personally, I’d let Putin have Germany, rather than see another Brit, American, Canadian or other nationality soldier die on their behalf... because that’s where this will end.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: The Alps
Germany also ordered some H215 airframes for SAR, though my issue isn’t the choice of aircraft, either H215 or H145. What disappoints me, is this spend on primarily German products, is no doubt part of the plot to lift German defence spending towards the NATO minimum, whilst enhancing a domestic capability which adds nothing, capability wise, to the NATO orbat.
Personally, I’d let Putin have Germany, rather than see another Brit, American, Canadian or other nationality soldier die on their behalf... because that’s where this will end.
Personally, I’d let Putin have Germany, rather than see another Brit, American, Canadian or other nationality soldier die on their behalf... because that’s where this will end.
The H215 is for their Feds - Bundespolizei ....however 9 years ago the Bundespolizei deployed trio of AS332L1 and pair of Bell 212 ( before their retirement) were embarked onboard USS Boxer alongside the Flying Leathernecks ACE-MEU (Special Operations Capable)....off the coast of Somalia for some op with KSK/ GSG-9...possible hostage rescue ?
FYI in April 2003 the USS Boxer hosted then HMM-261 ‘White Knights’ which was part of Task Force 20 which rescued Pvt Jessica Lynch in Iraq.
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: EGDC
Personally, I’d let Putin have Germany, rather than see another Brit, American, Canadian or other nationality soldier die on their behalf... because that’s where this will end.
So then you have to wait for the USA to join in or have a European Army to defend Europe........
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: On the big blue planet
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Germany
The three new H215 now coming into service (plus a 4th in 2019) are to be operated by the Federal Police (Bundespolizei) specifically to support the Central Command for Maritime Emergencies (Havariekommando). Not for SAR, but as dedicated resources for aerial reconnaisance, personnel and equipment transport during maritime incidents at sea - for example pollution control, oil recovery, shipboard fire fighting. Naturally, they would be available to be tasked as second-line SAR resources - however, the primary SAR role as per ICAO and support of the maritime search and rescue (lifeboat) service will continue to be provided by the German Navy. Currently with Sea King (or rather what little is left in operational condition) and NH90 from 2022.
2022 yeah right, that was a good one.
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: EGDC
Currently with Sea King (or rather what little is left in operational condition) and NH90 from 2022.
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From: Germany
There are steep and remote areas, where a winch is quite useful.
The instructors, which do the mountain training course with the German police flying school, where pilots from the border police and the different german states train together in the Alps tell, that with the 145 it is nearly about impossible to train flying to the limits, cause the 145 still operates with bleed valves open, mostly below the so-called blue line, which indicates safe OEI operation capability, which would make an engine failure at approach/departure an non event.
Asked, to take firewood up to a mountain hut, where outsidelandings are practiced, the 135 crews calculated, if they could take one or two bundels, the 145 crew said, we take them all 😜
Doing checkrides at normal altitudes, you can’t fly the proper OEI procedures, if you have a cloudbase around 1500 feet ground, cause if you use the 30sec and 2min power flying the book, you will rocket into the sky on one engine witch ROC between 1500 to 2000 feet /min....
So from the power available, AEO and OEI you really can go with the 145 😉
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: The back of beyond
Personally, I’d let Putin have Germany, rather than see another Brit, American, Canadian or other nationality soldier die on their behalf... because that’s where this will end.
