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Helicopter down outside Leicester City Football Club

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Helicopter down outside Leicester City Football Club

Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:19
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Offshore oil & gas drifting up & back is a big no no, like Industry Insider I've never done a take-off profile like that from an offshore rig / platform in my 20+ years flying offshore oil & gas.
Onshore some aircraft have a vertical profile like that, don't know if the AW169 has that profile in its RFM.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:21
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Sky news shows day light photos from the air of the burnt out airframe, all chard except a door looking section 7-8 feet away still with paint. Looks like 2 windows, could that be a escape hatch? Never been in a 169.

Last edited by thelad; 28th Oct 2018 at 16:13. Reason: Spelling
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:24
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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There was a suggestion that a possible TR failure could have been to blame. In these situations it doesn't really matter what profile you do whilst in the T/O phase. Only a suggestion like I say.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:27
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by finalchecksplease View Post
Offshore oil & gas drifting up & back is a big no no, like Industry Insider I've never done a take-off profile like that from an offshore rig / platform in my 20+ years flying offshore oil & gas.
Onshore some aircraft have a vertical profile like that, don't know if the AW169 has that profile in its RFM.
This is because offshore profiles arenít generally PC1, they are PC2 or PC2E and make use of a drop down below the deck edge in the event of an OEI fly away. The AW169 has a number of PC1 profiles suitable for ground based departures factoring obstacles above the take off surface, one of which utilises a very steep rearwards climb up to a maximum allowable TDP of 400ft above the surface which may be used appropriately for a site like a stadium, so long as the critical obstacles donít exceed 265ft above the take off surface.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:34
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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I understand that in an incident like this one might well perish from the crash alone. But one might also perish from an ensuing fuel fire. I know that Robertson Fuel Systems, for one, makes fuel tanks that are more crash resistant. The Robertson tanks are available for at least some civil aircraft; I can’t tell from their website if the AW 169 is one of those. Was it available for this aircraft? Anyone here have experience or knowledge as to this type of system and its effect? If you were wealthy and owned a helicopter, would you specify such?
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:39
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by thelad View Post
Sky news shows day light photos from the air of the burnt out airframe, all chard expect a door looking section 7-8 feet away still with paint. Looks like 2 windows, could that be a escape hatch? Never been in a 169.
It looks like one of the rear sliding doors...

skadi
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:39
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Aucky

This is because offshore profiles arenít generally PC1,
No itís not, some are PC1. itís even simpler than that, itís so that you donít reverse into the rig and crash.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:41
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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FWIW I've grabbed an image from Google maps and using the various photos on the news feeds identified the place (point B) where the aircraft came down. They really didn't get very far at all and would have had almost no height to play with even if they had any control. RIP.

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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:49
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by industry insider View Post
Aucky



No itís not, some are PC1. itís even simpler than that, itís so that you donít reverse into the rig and crash.
Well, if we're being pickety ..... he said 'generally' and I have done it from UMI's with no obstructions above deck, but the helideck was smaller than 1D, so there .....
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:51
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Gear retracted

From the video immediately after the crash the gear seems to be up. The gear doors are still closed and there doesn't appear to be significant impact damage. No gear to soften the impact and no resistance to stop it spinning and flipping.

I thought there was I minimum altitude of 500' before transitioning into toward flight in residential/built up areas?
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 15:02
  #71 (permalink)  

 
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If Wikipedia is to be believed, this is the first AW169 accident. Anyone know otherwise?

airsound

Edited to add - just seen a tweet in which Leonardo Helos states just that -
Leonardo Helicopters is ready to support the AAIB with their investigation to determine the cause of this accident. This is the first ever accident involving an AW169 helicopter
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 15:47
  #72 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Giboman View Post
From the video immediately after the crash the gear seems to be up. The gear doors are still closed and there doesn't appear to be significant impact damage. No gear to soften the impact and no resistance to stop it spinning and flipping.

I thought there was I minimum altitude of 500' before transitioning into toward flight in residential/built up areas?
The last sentence is total nonsense. Why did you think that?
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 15:56
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Well done to "Puma crew member Jim Rowlands" quoted on BBC ,for doing us all a favour by rubbishinghelicopters and speculating on the cause. Hope its worth his seconds of fame.
lets wait for the AAIB professionals please everyone.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 16:13
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 2016parks View Post
I understand that in an incident like this one might well perish from the crash alone. But one might also perish from an ensuing fuel fire. I know that Robertson Fuel Systems, for one, makes fuel tanks that are more crash resistant. The Robertson tanks are available for at least some civil aircraft; I canít tell from their website if the AW 169 is one of those. Was it available for this aircraft? Anyone here have experience or knowledge as to this type of system and its effect? If you were wealthy and owned a helicopter, would you specify such?
You are very correct, and this is not a new observation. US Army (USAAMRL) did a very comprehensive study of aviation crashes particularly in Korean and Vietnam wars, and determined that a significant majority of the deaths were from the heat of the ensuing fire. Crashworthiness standards were created for fuel systems that do not apply to commercial rotorcraft, but have resulted in minimal loss of fuel in aircraft since the late 1970's such as H-60 and later. The movie "BlackHawk Down" would not have been a story if not for such survivability features inherent in the design. Includes for example crash resistant tanks, self-closing connections and valves for fuel systems. Some commercial helicopters include this capability, but it is not without additional cost and weight penalty. Therefore people purchasing VIP helicopters may not really be in tune to the available technology to them, nor the very real importance. I am not aware if such options are available for this model helicopter, probably not. To be sure also, we do not know details of this case, including impact velocity, which can render crashworthy systems ineffective anyway. Again, the statistical reality is that the loss of life was likely due to fire, much as an over water mishap results tragically in death by drowning.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 16:14
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by industry insider View Post
No itís not, some are PC1. itís even simpler than that, itís so that you donít reverse into the rig and crash.
happy to be corrected - Iím not an offshore pilot however my main point was that this type of helipad departure is completely typical of onshore PC1 profiles on most light-medium twins, and the fact itís not used offshore doesnít imply a great deal in this context. Itís actually the only approved PC1 profile in the AW169 for a site of this sort with significant obstacles encircling it.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 16:15
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Is there any reason that there has been no official confirmation of who was on board?
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 16:18
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme View Post
Is there any reason that there has been no official confirmation of who was on board?
Maybe there's several greiving families, here and in the far east, that need to be informed before you are...
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 16:23
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by heli1 View Post
Well done to "Puma crew member Jim Rowlands" quoted on BBC ,for doing us all a favour by rubbishinghelicopters and speculating on the cause. Hope its worth his seconds of fame.
lets wait for the AAIB professionals please everyone.
A "UAV & DRONE TRAINING PROFESSIONAL" according to my quick google search heli1!!

Cheers

TeeS
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 16:25
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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I know of two pilots on that particular operation for the owner of Leicester City. From a purely selfish perspective I hope it isn’t them. RIP to those that perished.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 16:26
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TeeS View Post
A "UAV & DRONE TRAINING PROFESSIONAL" according to my quick google search heli1!!

Cheers

TeeS
A quick look on LinkedIn shows the full details - Ex-RAF Puma/Griphon Crewman then a bunch of other stuff followed after leaving.
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