Cumbria - Dauphin in the fog...
Sasless - I know - it's just like dealing with another rotorheads favourite troll - I won't say his name
Hughes - that has to be the most straw-clutching attempt at an argument I have seen for a while - whose fault is it if you crash your car because you weren't paying attention to the road? Plus they were doing about 10 mph in the fog anyway! If they were going faster than that, are you really going to blame the aircraft's presence for any accident?
Will blaming a distracting low-flying aircraft be the next insurance scam after whiplash and deliberate rear-ending?
Hughes - that has to be the most straw-clutching attempt at an argument I have seen for a while - whose fault is it if you crash your car because you weren't paying attention to the road? Plus they were doing about 10 mph in the fog anyway! If they were going faster than that, are you really going to blame the aircraft's presence for any accident?
Will blaming a distracting low-flying aircraft be the next insurance scam after whiplash and deliberate rear-ending?
Begging your indulgence!
Now, since their would seem to be MANY sinners on here who might have transgressed (in a former life of course), but the Holy DB is willing to grant absolution if one confesses to those sins, I wonder if there's a bob or two to be made from selling 'indulgences' ?
Crab
Sorry, that Dauphin was less than 20m from the public highway, if there had been an accident I think you would find the crew would be appearing in court to explain their actions. I really think you need to stop clutching at straws, this crew through a lack of TEM potentially put themselves and members of the general public in harms way. I am afraid to say that is totally unacceptable
Sorry, that Dauphin was less than 20m from the public highway, if there had been an accident I think you would find the crew would be appearing in court to explain their actions. I really think you need to stop clutching at straws, this crew through a lack of TEM potentially put themselves and members of the general public in harms way. I am afraid to say that is totally unacceptable
Crab
Sorry, that Dauphin was less than 20m from the public highway, if there had been an accident I think you would find the crew would be appearing in court to explain their actions. I really think you need to stop clutching at straws, this crew through a lack of TEM potentially put themselves and members of the general public in harms way. I am afraid to say that is totally unacceptable
Sorry, that Dauphin was less than 20m from the public highway, if there had been an accident I think you would find the crew would be appearing in court to explain their actions. I really think you need to stop clutching at straws, this crew through a lack of TEM potentially put themselves and members of the general public in harms way. I am afraid to say that is totally unacceptable
Crab
Sorry, that Dauphin was less than 20m from the public highway, if there had been an accident I think you would find the crew would be appearing in court to explain their actions. I really think you need to stop clutching at straws, this crew through a lack of TEM potentially put themselves and members of the general public in harms way. I am afraid to say that is totally unacceptable
Sorry, that Dauphin was less than 20m from the public highway, if there had been an accident I think you would find the crew would be appearing in court to explain their actions. I really think you need to stop clutching at straws, this crew through a lack of TEM potentially put themselves and members of the general public in harms way. I am afraid to say that is totally unacceptable
Actually to catch the drivers attention!!!!
Mostly, because there is an traffic jam/accident behind a curve/hilltop.
I ˋm sure, I prevented more accidents then I caused ;-)
Hughes - please feel free to suggest how your TEM would have been superior in this case - you find yourself caught out by the weather in a narrow valley and you need to get out because landing isn't an option.
If they had flown past at 101'agl and 10Mmsc by the road (quite legally within standard low flying authorisation), how would you have viewed their TEM then? Still going to cause an accident? If so you should campaign to have all military low-flying banned immediately because that happens pretty much every day of the week.
Then what about a pipeline or powerline inspection helicopter going about their lawful business at low level near roads - is their TEM at fault too?
If they had flown past at 101'agl and 10Mmsc by the road (quite legally within standard low flying authorisation), how would you have viewed their TEM then? Still going to cause an accident? If so you should campaign to have all military low-flying banned immediately because that happens pretty much every day of the week.
Then what about a pipeline or powerline inspection helicopter going about their lawful business at low level near roads - is their TEM at fault too?
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Who cares? at this point most people have lost the will to live.
Yes, military crew are awesome and faultless. One day we too wish we can skirt a road full of civilians and have our honour defended by colleagues no matter how the dashcam may be interpreted.
Only when we are grownups.
One day.
Maybe.
We are all very impressed and grateful should a terrorist cell need removal from the Mickey D's in Slough.
Yes, military crew are awesome and faultless. One day we too wish we can skirt a road full of civilians and have our honour defended by colleagues no matter how the dashcam may be interpreted.
Only when we are grownups.
One day.
Maybe.
We are all very impressed and grateful should a terrorist cell need removal from the Mickey D's in Slough.
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AS365 in the muck
On that Dauphin AS 365 in the FOG...
You know when I was flying EMS in the US and Auz, the pressure was huge... From the back you get "we're loosing him/her/it" and on the radio to base "WHATS YOUR ETA to hospital?" then from the back "HURRY!!!"
That aside the landscape sure looks a lot different in clear WX eh? Also if he knew the area and stuck to the fence, he was ok. If he had some of the gadgets I saw at HAI and flew with the other day... it's a walk in the Lakes...
When I was a kitten and started flying EMS IFR was I Follow Roads.
Besides in flying around in the Lake District or where ever it's look out for the sheep and the farmer whose on the date with her...
I flew a Dauphin not long ago and the center MFP had a function I have in my BMW.sedan.. an Infrared Night Vision camera wide angle. Very handy in the muck on the roads. You can see in the dark or bad WX, and that's in the car. The one in the 365 had 3 views. front/belly and top of the stab and all on split screen.
Also I saw some ships at HAI with HSVT Synthetic Vision Technology and HTAWS Terrain Awareness so with any of those she or he would have confidence to do that. Plus with auto hover you can select altitude and just point so the Radar Altimeter saves your ars. BAD NEWS... The bosses have a chip and watch your barnstorming... good news... makes the break room a little more fun...
OMG.. Just zoomed out and it IS THE BLOODY LAKES DISTRICT. and in the middle of the Nat'l Park at that. Too much time in the chair lads.
You know when I was flying EMS in the US and Auz, the pressure was huge... From the back you get "we're loosing him/her/it" and on the radio to base "WHATS YOUR ETA to hospital?" then from the back "HURRY!!!"
That aside the landscape sure looks a lot different in clear WX eh? Also if he knew the area and stuck to the fence, he was ok. If he had some of the gadgets I saw at HAI and flew with the other day... it's a walk in the Lakes...
When I was a kitten and started flying EMS IFR was I Follow Roads.
Besides in flying around in the Lake District or where ever it's look out for the sheep and the farmer whose on the date with her...
I flew a Dauphin not long ago and the center MFP had a function I have in my BMW.sedan.. an Infrared Night Vision camera wide angle. Very handy in the muck on the roads. You can see in the dark or bad WX, and that's in the car. The one in the 365 had 3 views. front/belly and top of the stab and all on split screen.
Also I saw some ships at HAI with HSVT Synthetic Vision Technology and HTAWS Terrain Awareness so with any of those she or he would have confidence to do that. Plus with auto hover you can select altitude and just point so the Radar Altimeter saves your ars. BAD NEWS... The bosses have a chip and watch your barnstorming... good news... makes the break room a little more fun...
OMG.. Just zoomed out and it IS THE BLOODY LAKES DISTRICT. and in the middle of the Nat'l Park at that. Too much time in the chair lads.
Last edited by 342 driver; 19th Sep 2018 at 19:56. Reason: spelling
Dauphin in the fog - the gift that keeps on giving...
this crew through a lack of TEM potentially put themselves and members of the general public in harms way
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Sorry if I missed a link, but do we have the actual video footage? Because me also being a photographer... I know it’s highly unlikely to have caught the blades nearly frozen like that in the still in lighting hat low. Even in a video grab.
Or maybe I’m getting old and cameras are getting better. Way better!
Or maybe I’m getting old and cameras are getting better. Way better!
Crab really doesnt matter if it is legal, is it sensible ?
You haven't said what you would have done............
Sorry if I missed a link, but do we have the actual video footage? Because me also being a photographer... I know it’s highly unlikely to have caught the blades nearly frozen like that in the still in lighting hat low. Even in a video grab.
Or maybe I’m getting old and cameras are getting better. Way better!
Or maybe I’m getting old and cameras are getting better. Way better!
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
is what sensible? Low flying? They didn't choose to get caught out by the weather
You haven't said what you would have done............
You haven't said what you would have done............
my only input to add to this is I dont think the weather just rolled in. the road is wet, it appears that it had been like this for some amount of time. Much longer than it took them to fly into it suddenly, turn around and go back out.
Tally my opinion to the group that thinks these guys screwed up with poor planning over anything else and got away with avoiding an accident.
If its like any other mountainous area I have been in, I agree that weather can change quickly, but if you're experienced enough to follow a stone wall along a road, then you're experienced enough to know the weather patterns for that area. The weather changes or weather patterns are likely well known for this area for this time of year. There was no surprise. This was pushing limits for whatever reason.
Tally my opinion to the group that thinks these guys screwed up with poor planning over anything else and got away with avoiding an accident.
If its like any other mountainous area I have been in, I agree that weather can change quickly, but if you're experienced enough to follow a stone wall along a road, then you're experienced enough to know the weather patterns for that area. The weather changes or weather patterns are likely well known for this area for this time of year. There was no surprise. This was pushing limits for whatever reason.
How many seconds did it take for the weather to go from CAVOK to completely ****ty?
Weather deterioration can happen very quickly in hilly or mountainous terrain with updraughts, or in this case, downdraughts, dragging the cloud down the hill and into the narrow valley they were flying along - it happens and isn't forecastable in such localised conditions.
Some need to get over the idea that the video was as a result of a pre-planned scenario.
Route planned, weather checked, launch on navex, encounter rapid localised weather deterioration en route, go down, slow down, turn round when safe to do so, escape bad weather and continue navex. What more do some of you want?
I know military low flying isn't something everyone here has done but surely everyone has had an aviation plan turn out differently to the way it was intended and had to divert/replan/land/turn round - exactly like this crew did. Not rocket science and no-one would have planned to end up in those conditions but sometimes it just happens and you have to deal with it - calmly, professionally and as safely as possible ie exactly what this crew did. Just because they ended up on someone's dashcam doesn't make them naughty, unsafe or unprofessional.
Plenty here want to criticise but no-one has said what they would do in the same situation - so sh*t or get off the pot. (we have already discounted reversion to IFR for fuel and terrain reasons) Anyone fancy going IMC in a steep narrow valley with cumulo-granitus on all sides???