Bell 429 crash in China
Thread Starter
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From: Europe
Joined: May 2002
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From: Wanaka, NZ
My operative in China reported 3 fatal + 1 minor injury (young female pilot). Perhaps reportee was mistaken because the post accident cabin looked survivable.
The aftermath here:
http://www.news.com.au/video/id-5348...-Beijing-crash
For my money, there wasn't a whole lot of pilot steering going on there.
The aftermath here:
http://www.news.com.au/video/id-5348...-Beijing-crash
For my money, there wasn't a whole lot of pilot steering going on there.
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: In the air with luck
Witnesses said the helicopter spun around a number of times before plummeting nose-first to the ground at about 11am, does not look nose first to me
From VR news today
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2157470/helicopter-crashes-nose-first-beijing-car-park-no-casualties?utm_source=vertical-daily-news-news-from-the-web&utm_campaign=vertical-daily-news&utm_medium=email&utm_term=news-from-the-web&utm_content=V1
From VR news today
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2157470/helicopter-crashes-nose-first-beijing-car-park-no-casualties?utm_source=vertical-daily-news-news-from-the-web&utm_campaign=vertical-daily-news&utm_medium=email&utm_term=news-from-the-web&utm_content=V1
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Germany
My operative in China reported 3 fatal + 1 minor injury (young female pilot). Perhaps reportee was mistaken because the post accident cabin looked survivable.
The aftermath here:
http://www.news.com.au/video/id-5348...-Beijing-crash
For my money, there wasn't a whole lot of pilot steering going on there.
The aftermath here:
http://www.news.com.au/video/id-5348...-Beijing-crash
For my money, there wasn't a whole lot of pilot steering going on there.
But on the second thought, being tossed into the harness during the first rotations, how much coolness is left to try to continue flying? May be seeing the carpark and aiming for it was all what she was able to do at that moment.
Will be an interesting accident report....
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
....on the second thought, being tossed into the harness during the first rotations, how much coolness is left to try to continue flying?
Having learned and understanding what you have been taught, doing the same during your training and embracing what you were shown and practiced, and having the attitude of never giving up.....(assuming all of the teaching and instructing was adequate and proper of course) then the flying would continue until well into the crash.
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From: Germany
Education, Training, Experience....and Mindset determine that!
Having learned and understanding what you have been taught, doing the same during your training and embracing what you were shown and practiced, and having the attitude of never giving up.....(assuming all of the teaching and instructing was adequate and proper of course) then the flying would continue until well into the crash.
Having learned and understanding what you have been taught, doing the same during your training and embracing what you were shown and practiced, and having the attitude of never giving up.....(assuming all of the teaching and instructing was adequate and proper of course) then the flying would continue until well into the crash.
I wrote, „was all she was able to...“
Donˋt know, how much Sim-training she had, or „fly away“ training?!
Lowering the collective and pushing the nose down to gain speed is something you have to have trained to have the experience, that you can fly away, if you have enough height an react fast enough.
It was quite a thrill with the instructor „just kicking the pedal to the floor“, simulating the failure.
But it worked out 😉
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: UK
Bell 429 crash in China
Didn't see this one posted on here, but if it's an oldie, I'll delete ??
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9oH3c_1532974694
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9oH3c_1532974694
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From: Under a grey cloud
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Germany
The Liveleak Video shows a little more, as soon as she reduced speed and started to turn, the turnrate increased.
Dropping out with a little forward speed the bird seems to stabilse,
Then, with reduced airspeed, the turning starts again.
Possible LTE? No idea about the weight/winddirection/DA conditions.
Dropping out with a little forward speed the bird seems to stabilse,
Then, with reduced airspeed, the turning starts again.
Possible LTE? No idea about the weight/winddirection/DA conditions.
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
First thought upon seeing the Live Leak video was the same....with what looks like a second onset as the aircraft begins to come to a hover after the initial recovery.
The Investigation will determine if there was a mechanical failure and if none....then perhaps.
The Investigation will determine if there was a mechanical failure and if none....then perhaps.
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: UK
My operative in China reported 3 fatal + 1 minor injury (young female pilot).
4 injured as civilian helicopter crash-lands in Beijing - Xinhua | English.news.cn
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Great South East, tired and retired
Possible LTE? No idea about the weight/winddirection/DA conditions.
Bell spin from the early 70s, but still propagated today - how sad. Gurgle up Nick Lappos with his post about helicopter urban myths.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Great South East, tired and retired
Sassy,
The lady repeated the mantra "ALL single-rotor helicopters are susceptible to LTE" - doesn't mean it's true. Check what Nick says.
The video then goes on to describe how the pilot stuffed up an approach, coming in downwind, 100% torque, pedal on the stops, RPM drooping, and he calls it "UNANTICIPATED YAW"??!!
What kind of idiot would NOT anticipate yaw in that situation. This video is plain and simple, loss of pilot awareness, running out of pedal. But call it LTE and suddenly it is not your fault. (Cue the mantra)
If LTE existed, it would be a snap yaw while the pedals are nowhere near the stops.
The lady repeated the mantra "ALL single-rotor helicopters are susceptible to LTE" - doesn't mean it's true. Check what Nick says.
The video then goes on to describe how the pilot stuffed up an approach, coming in downwind, 100% torque, pedal on the stops, RPM drooping, and he calls it "UNANTICIPATED YAW"??!!
What kind of idiot would NOT anticipate yaw in that situation. This video is plain and simple, loss of pilot awareness, running out of pedal. But call it LTE and suddenly it is not your fault. (Cue the mantra)
If LTE existed, it would be a snap yaw while the pedals are nowhere near the stops.
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From: Brantisvogan
What kind of idiot would NOT anticipate yaw in that situation. This video is plain and simple, loss of pilot awareness, running out of pedal. But call it LTE and suddenly it is not your fault. (Cue the mantra)
If LTE existed, it would be a snap yaw while the pedals are nowhere near the stops.
If LTE existed, it would be a snap yaw while the pedals are nowhere near the stops.
Where you see an aircraft losing the battle with gravity or the tail overtaking the pilot it is immediately blamed on Vortex or LTE, as if the poor person up front was a passenger to the events, when it is in most cases the aircraft being taken beyond it's limits through flawed technique.
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Germany
LTE only applies to the older B206 with the small tail rotor, and if it REALLY existed, the bird would emerge from "LTE" after maybe 90 -180 degrees of turn, when the relative winds have changed.
Bell spin from the early 70s, but still propagated today - how sad. Gurgle up Nick Lappos with his post about helicopter urban myths.
Bell spin from the early 70s, but still propagated today - how sad. Gurgle up Nick Lappos with his post about helicopter urban myths.
It can happen with bigger newer machines as well, if you are to slow to push the pedal, don‘t push it fast enough far enough and have a high AUM with high DA.
Even Eurocopter has an handout about undemanded yaw, stating, what „mishandling“ leads to - and what you have to do then.
Don‘t make this an discussion about LTE
Analyzing the video you can see reducing the airspeed led to turns, dropping out with a little speed seemed to cure the problem until speed was bleed of again.
For a complete tailor failure the „cure speed“ is way to slow so other causes contributed to this accident.
When I have a little spare time I might look up Nicks Myth, a link would be nice.
But I also have videos in mind, which I have lo look up, where pilots went to close to the performance limits and ****** up, if you call it LTE or not, they were just spinning to the crash...