AS 350: "Hold my beer son and watch this!"

[Bell_ringer]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

I don't think that's a true statement at all - do you have any evidence to support that?

As for extrapolating the wingover argument into exceeding all limitations, that seems a very black and white position to take ie 'If you are going to break one rule you may as well break them all' and not representative of any pilots I have ever flown with.

Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that it is only 1%?
I am referring to a flying culture of which a wingover is but a part.
My last comment was obviously hyperbolic, but if someone is prepared to break one rule, they will certainly be prepared to break another. How many they choose to skirt is academic, comes back again to culture and culture certainly has an effect on safety.
When eventually something goes wrong it will be the cumulative effects of all the little percentages that have unexpectedly added up.

[Sikpilot]

Would any pilot here say something to the pilot flying this aircraft if they had to fly it afterwards? Would you say anything to the maintenance dept? Chief pilot?
If anyone here owned this aircraft, would u keep him on your payroll if you saw this?

[[email protected]]

Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that it is only 1%?

unless you spend the whole sortie doing wingovers and assuming we are talking about carrying pax from place to place, a wingover is probably only flown on arrival at the LS - given the amount of time the aircraft will spend in transit to earn it's crust, I don't think 1% is unrealistic.

My last comment was obviously hyperbolic, but if someone is prepared to break one rule, they will certainly be prepared to break another.

I don't think that is true either, there will be a sliding scale of acceptable behaviour, even in the worst cowboy, and everyone will have their own 'red-lines'.

[Bell_ringer]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

there will be a sliding scale of acceptable behaviour, even in the worst cowboy, and everyone will have their own 'red-lines'.

Agreed, but how many rules get broken or how far that scale slides isn't all that important, it's condoning the sliding scale to begin with that's problematic.
It is a slippery slope in an environment that should be black and white. Trying to create grey areas based on ability or by transferring what is acceptable in a different environment to civilian operations isn't going to make anyone safer.

For each person you may choose to defend by saying these manoeuvres can be done without damage while in skilled hands, there are a couple more that are flying beyond their pay grade and taking aircraft beyond their limits.
It is easy to nit-pick over phone videos but it would be a lot better to create a more safety-conscious culture by finding other ways for bored or complacent pilots to entertain themselves.

We can all agree to disagree.

[Fantome]

It is easy to nit-pick over phone videos but it would be a lot better to create a more safety-conscious culture by finding other ways for bored or complacent pilots to entertain themselves.

Bored ??? Complacent??? Sounds like an accident going somewhere to happen.

[[email protected]]

Bored ??? Complacent??? Sounds like an accident going somewhere to happen

Sounds like a crew flying a serviceable aircraft, completely within the rules and the RFM, into the sea at Sumburgh and killing several pax - what price ability there?

That did a lot more damage than a wingover - perhaps if they had flown the occasional 'cowboy' manouvre they might have been more on the ball when it really counted.

[FC80]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

do you know that for sure or are you just super-imposing your own views - the crews he was working with may well ask for this type of flying.

Well, if some know-nothing grunt you're picking up asks you to fly it like you stole it, you don't have much choice, do you?

[arketip]

Originally Posted by FC80

Well, if some know-nothing grunt

Is that what you usually call your crew?

[[email protected]]

FC80 - ever worked with Mountain Rescue teams? I have been asked several times in the past to give them an enjoyable ride (RNLI and MCA too) - how far you take that is up to individual discretion (as long as the crew agree that is) it doesn't have to be stunting and bunting, just something other than straight and level.

[Bell_ringer]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

FC80 - ever worked with Mountain Rescue teams? I have been asked several times in the past to give them an enjoyable ride (RNLI and MCA too) - how far you take that is up to individual discretion (as long as the crew agree that is) it doesn't have to be stunting and bunting, just something other than straight and level.

Is it up to the individual?
Aren't there constraints set by the operator, regulator and manufacturer?
Granted that leaves some leeway, but the boundaries are certainly not defined by the individual nor the crew.
I have read and agreed with many of your posts over the years, this thread seems to have taken a strange departure from the usual trend.

[Fantome]

it doesn't have to be stunting and bunting, just something other than straight and level.

. . . . and anyone qualified to comment who takes exception to that mild rejoiner needs (as was posted on another thread here recently) to "go and get laid and loosen up".


(thinks -- wish someone who knows how would post that scene from the movie Capricorn One where the sinister pair of Hughes 500s slam into the side of a mesa, erupting in huge fireballs.)

[treadigraph]

Originally Posted by Fantome

(thinks -- wish someone who knows how would post that scene from the movie Capricorn One where the sinister pair of Hughes 500s slam into the side of a mesa, erupting in huge fireballs.)

Et voila...

You Tube

[Fantome]

what a great one-liner from Telly - "PERVERTS!!"

[Thomas coupling]

About the only exciting thing one can do with a seaking and pax is fly sideways to let a breeze into the backdoor!

Crab - you have to let go, now. The mil was then and times have changed.

This forum's about civvy street. You and I both know this cnut flew at or beyond the flight envelope when he didn't need to be anywhere near there - for this particular occasion.
His willie was driving, not his hand!

Let's all move on now shall we, this is getting soooooo boring.

[WillyPete]

This one is guaranteed to get as much negative reaction.

You Tube

[GrayHorizonsHeli]

Willy....you twatwaffle...this thread was poised to finally breathe its last few breaths....now look what you have done.....

[[email protected]]

This is a on a completely different scale to the opening video, clearly the pilot had done some display flying before since he includes all the classic manoeuvres and had them reasonably well-linked and performed.

However, it is just such an impromptu air display that often ends in tears and I am certainly not countenancing or defending this behaviour.

[Bell_ringer]

It wasn't "Q" was it?
(That should get things going)

[Thomas coupling]

WillyPete, I would be more than happy to report this to the CAA if you have any further info on it: Date / venue / reg number?

Complete and utter total neglect for public safety. Busting every conceivable reg available, I would suggest.

Can you provide more info via PM for me please?

[toptobottom]

I would be more than happy to report this to the CAA

‘Billy no mates’ TC sinks to a new all-time low