Pilot Employment in the Gig Economy

[helicrazi]

Originally Posted by nigelh

What you guys need to remember is that the companies need to make a profit and in recent years a lot haven't been making much at all . If there are two pilots after a job , one with a rating and the other without ...which one would you employ ? I think it seems perfectly fair to ask the one without a rating to pay for his rating over a period of time . I can tell you that if I had to rate someone to fly my machine I would at least want the " cost" repaying by a reduction in his pay over the year . There is no point moaning about it and looking to unions ....the market will find the correct rate for you guys and if you think it's too low then that is because there is a surplus of you ....when the reverse happens the rates will go up !! Lastly ....due to the underpayment of pilots how meanies companies are making a fortune ? I think the idea is very sound and having more pilots readily available for freelance work can only help get more aircraft in the air which is good for everyone .
Prepare for incoming 🙈!!

I think you have missed the point. What he is asking is that you pay up front the type rating (as I understand it). Not what you are suggesting which is a reduction in salary.

Being given a new job and a type rating by a company then being bonded for a period I think is fair.

Not being able to get a job unless you first pay 50k ish for a type rating out of order, especially with a contract position to look forward to. Like I said previously, if you have that sort of money to spend then spend it on a licence coversion.

[nigelh]

I thought the whole point was that THEY sub you the money for the rating and you pay it back from earnings .... I agree it wouldn’t be fair or sensible for the pilot to pay for the rating with no guarantee of earnings.

[helicrazi]

Originally Posted by nigelh

I thought the whole point was that THEY sub you the money for the rating and you pay it back from earnings .... I agree it wouldn’t be fair or sensible for the pilot to pay for the rating with no guarantee of earnings.

So they sub you 50k for an S92, you get a contract position, then the employer decides after 2 weeks you are no longer required? S92 falls out of favour. No more work. You think they write off the debt? No because it's your finance, you owe them or the finance company they have roped you into.

[Impress to inflate]

If it looks like sh^t, smells like sh&t and tastes like sh%t then I guess it is sh*t !!

The only people this will be good for are the newly retired who want to keep there hand in for some extra pocket money.

[nigelh]

If you read what they say ....
Packer assured me that Helispeed will pay the guaranteed period even if the end client cancels the contract or terminates early.

You then need to decide if the contract is long enough and the pay good enough to invest in the rating !
I still can’t see any reason why a company should pay for you to get qualified to do the job you are applying for . If I wanted to employ a chauffeur I wouldn’t pay for him to get his driving licence !!

[helicrazi]

Originally Posted by nigelh

If you read what they say ....
Packer assured me that Helispeed will pay the guaranteed period even if the end client cancels the contract or terminates early.

You then need to decide if the contract is long enough and the pay good enough to invest in the rating !
I still can’t see any reason why a company should pay for you to get qualified to do the job you are applying for . If I wanted to employ a chauffeur I wouldn’t pay for him to get his driving licence !!

But we aren't chauffeurs, we are professionals who have already invested 100k into a licence.

We technically have our 'driving licence' if you want to use that analogy, what a chauffer doesn't need is a type rating for every car he drives.

[heliduck]

Originally Posted by nigelh

If you read what they say ....
Packer assured me that Helispeed will pay the guaranteed period even if the end client cancels the contract or terminates early.

You then need to decide if the contract is long enough and the pay good enough to invest in the rating !
I still can’t see any reason why a company should pay for you to get qualified to do the job you are applying for . If I wanted to employ a chauffeur I wouldn’t pay for him to get his driving licence !!

I understand what you’re saying & you make a good point, but I don’t think the different industries are a fair comparison. If the cost for a driving licence was equivalent to 1years gross earnings I don’t think they would be expected to pay for it, or if they were their wouldn’t be any chauffeurs. Hence the crux of the problem, this is only creeping into the industry as there are pilots willing to do it. It’s not the large corporations fault for trying to improve their bottom line, if no pilots paid for the rating there wouldn’t be enough pilots then the companies would pay for the rating or ground the machine. I’m not saying it is ethical, moral or good business practice but they only do it because there’s a market for it. After all, most helicopter pilots are like crack addicts, we’ll do whatever it takes to fly & they’ve woken up to that.

[EESDL]

And the biggest danger of the ‘gig economy’ is.......

.....the degradation of flight safety levels from using temporary crews. It will cater for/permit a fickle mindset and a lack of pride/ownership and service.
Please do not harp on about ‘professionalism’ as the last time I saw pilot jobs in jeopardy there were very few pilots behaving like professionals - behaved more like ‘rats on a sinking ship’ or an Italian cruise ship captain!

The rights or wrongs of having to pay for a TR are neither here nor there. That is a side issue which becomes insignificant when you consider the unintended consequences. You get what you pay for and the market will dictate. It could still be seen as a good investment by the pilot if a long period of work was guaranteed and it appears Helispeed is providing some form of guarantee.
It is another layer of ‘sub-contracting’ where professionalism, pride, service, working relationships and Flight Safety will also suffer.

[gulliBell]

Originally Posted by EESDL

.....the degradation of flight safety levels from using temporary crews. It will cater for/permit a fickle mindset and a lack of pride/ownership and service. etc etc.

I agree with all that.

[EESDL]

I guess the devil will be in the detail - Ryanair pilots had similar concerns......

[Impress to inflate]

"..the degradation of flight safety levels from using temporary crews. It will cater for/permit a fickle mindset and a lack of pride/ownership and service."

Here Here.....Totally agree. How can a company have a safety culture with regards to training, i.e. cover all the a/c systems in a rolling three year cycle during sim trips so all crews cover the main systems and there function with associated emergencies only have some of the crews "step in and step out" as required. This tells me that there is a price on safety if companies opt for this scenario !!!!!!

[malabo]

I’d always wondered how the NS was able to use contractors instead of full-time for that very reason: all the complexity of currencies, training, DG, HUET. Never saw contractors in other parts of the offshore world. Was explained to me as an end run around costly unionized restrictions that stalemated - unions not strong enough to displace contractors, and companies not strong enough to negotiate relief. Less safe of course, but that last percent of safe is an exponential curve costwise, and the reality is that we are “safe enough”.

[N Arslow]

This has to drive down standards - if you as a pilot are responsible for your training are you not going to be like any company - try to spend the minimum to achieve the relevant tick. The only difference is the company will be checking you and probably be willing to pay an extra two hours a year in the sim. We all know how standards vary for a "pass". That is my first problem with this. First of many.
The other biggie is paying for a type rating (not the annual training as in my first problem). Pay 35k for a type rating with that money guaranteed back in work. So for three months all is well - I get work, pay my mortgage and start to pay off my loan - then the work dries up - so I've been paid say £500/day and work 15 per month. £7500/month x3 = £22,500. I then get £12,500? I've just worked three months for free and still won't have enough to pay off the loan. Dodgy.

[Nadine77]

The devil will be in the details, as Ryanair pilots shared similar concerns.