Man fires at helicopter (or .... Welcome to "RotorBlast". Do not enter if .... etc)
SASless, first let me clear the air regarding Vietnam - my point in mentioning it was that in my opinion, no reasonable person could endure the horrors of that war, or any other, and still think lightly of taking another's life. The fact that it has to be done in war because it is kill or be killed only highlights the weakness of the argument about defending your property - viz I find a guy burgling my house and I shoot him dead - I could have stopped him by just shouting or throwing something at him (reasonable force) but you want to go straight to the .357 head removal option. I don't think this is the act of a reasonable or rational human being. If however, some nutcase blows holes in my door and then tries to take me out with a firearm then I might have some justification for shooting first and asking questions later.
Nick - attack earlier, more sharply and less discriminately? Why not just nuke the whole world and have done with it. If a guy comes up to me in a pub and punches me, I might at least consider why he did it before I hit him back. If guys follow me around trying to beat me up I might even wonder if I did something really bad to upset them and that I might have been in the wrong.
SASless - as to being invaded - the British Isles have been in almost constant turmoil for over 2000 years and the English/Scots/Irish and Welsh have fought more wars between themselves and others than most other countries have had hot dinners. WWII was just the latest and most spectacular of European conflicts - perhaps if the US ever has a battle on it's own territory with someone other than it's own people you will be less likely to consider invading other countries as a matter of course.
Nick - attack earlier, more sharply and less discriminately? Why not just nuke the whole world and have done with it. If a guy comes up to me in a pub and punches me, I might at least consider why he did it before I hit him back. If guys follow me around trying to beat me up I might even wonder if I did something really bad to upset them and that I might have been in the wrong.
SASless - as to being invaded - the British Isles have been in almost constant turmoil for over 2000 years and the English/Scots/Irish and Welsh have fought more wars between themselves and others than most other countries have had hot dinners. WWII was just the latest and most spectacular of European conflicts - perhaps if the US ever has a battle on it's own territory with someone other than it's own people you will be less likely to consider invading other countries as a matter of course.
Crab....
The next time you encounter a home invader in the wee hours of the morrning and he is carrying a knife....and all you have is the wife's best friend in yer grubby mitts....tell me about the wisdom of having your trusty gat ready for use. As the violent crime rates increase in the UK, more of the good, ordinary, law abiding people are going to suffer physical loss, injury and death due to being unarmed, unprotected, and legally defenseless due to a system of laws that still consider the state(crown) to be the victim and not the citizen that suffers the loss.
As to us invading Afghanistan....I think that is what your remark intends....in time we will depart and take our troops home without any effort to takeover and occupy that country except for as long enough to root out the infrastructure that trained and supported those that attacked us and continue to intend our citizens great harm.
By the way, which pub you frequent....how many times do you have to get punched on the snot locker before you stand up and swing back? What is there to think about....you have just been assaulted! Is it once, twice, three times....or do I get to fairly well wear you out before you decide to defend yourself? At sometime ....deep down within your being....you will get tired of me thumping you and you will start swinging.....this applies to the home invasions, armed robberies, car snatching, and other violent crimes that are becoming more frequent in the UK. Why, even the Coppers are beginning to carry firearms.....they had to face a few recalcitrant fellows with machetes to learn that lesson. It is a damn shame the Police Officer lost his arms in the attack but at least the others now have some sort of backup. In time, you will see all the Police armed.....sad a commentary as it is. And that is despite the strictest gun laws in the world too .
The next time you encounter a home invader in the wee hours of the morrning and he is carrying a knife....and all you have is the wife's best friend in yer grubby mitts....tell me about the wisdom of having your trusty gat ready for use. As the violent crime rates increase in the UK, more of the good, ordinary, law abiding people are going to suffer physical loss, injury and death due to being unarmed, unprotected, and legally defenseless due to a system of laws that still consider the state(crown) to be the victim and not the citizen that suffers the loss.
As to us invading Afghanistan....I think that is what your remark intends....in time we will depart and take our troops home without any effort to takeover and occupy that country except for as long enough to root out the infrastructure that trained and supported those that attacked us and continue to intend our citizens great harm.
By the way, which pub you frequent....how many times do you have to get punched on the snot locker before you stand up and swing back? What is there to think about....you have just been assaulted! Is it once, twice, three times....or do I get to fairly well wear you out before you decide to defend yourself? At sometime ....deep down within your being....you will get tired of me thumping you and you will start swinging.....this applies to the home invasions, armed robberies, car snatching, and other violent crimes that are becoming more frequent in the UK. Why, even the Coppers are beginning to carry firearms.....they had to face a few recalcitrant fellows with machetes to learn that lesson. It is a damn shame the Police Officer lost his arms in the attack but at least the others now have some sort of backup. In time, you will see all the Police armed.....sad a commentary as it is. And that is despite the strictest gun laws in the world too .
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Flare Dammit!
Macho British actor? How about Vinnie Jones? Ex-hod carrier, ex-psychopathic footballer. And..er well thats about it actually.
Mindst you, I seem to recall a profound reluctance amongst the Hollywood so-called "tough guys" - Bruce Willis springs to mind - to fly the Atlantic in the wake of 11 September..
And if you think we Brits don't understand the concept of manliness, take a look at Lily Savage, John Inman, Dale Winton, Julian Clarey and Eddie Izzard. If we had played that back line for the British Lions last week, I'm damned sure that we wouldn't have ended up with a record dfefeat.
Macho British actor? How about Vinnie Jones? Ex-hod carrier, ex-psychopathic footballer. And..er well thats about it actually.
Mindst you, I seem to recall a profound reluctance amongst the Hollywood so-called "tough guys" - Bruce Willis springs to mind - to fly the Atlantic in the wake of 11 September..
And if you think we Brits don't understand the concept of manliness, take a look at Lily Savage, John Inman, Dale Winton, Julian Clarey and Eddie Izzard. If we had played that back line for the British Lions last week, I'm damned sure that we wouldn't have ended up with a record dfefeat.
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Friendly fire
Did any of you hear about the Canuck soldiers killed in Afghanistan by the US aviator? During a TRAINING EXERCISE, buddy saw muzzle flashes and thought al Queda were shooting at him. The Canucks were right where they were supposed to be, and buddy bombed 'em anyways. This fella is a highly trained, professional soldier with the might of US military intelligence (oxymoron?) on-line behind him. Opps!
And how about the wedding party that got busted up. Seems the Afghans like to fire off a few (well, many) rounds to make some noise during the party. (Another) buddy thought they were gunning for him and... 31 dead included bride and groom.
Please don't feed me any lines about unfortunate collateral damage, mistakes happen, yadda yadda yadda. We've all seen the movie and know the moral. Sounds like more that a few of us were IN the movie. Fact is when you give big kids guns, people get killed, and not always the "right" people. Owning a gun, like flying a helicopter, should be a priveledge, not a right. And like a commercial pilot's license, a gun license should have to be earned again and again. 'Cuz people change.
Why is it some Yanks go positively ballistic at the slightest whiff of a gun control conversation?
By the by: Our JTF2 lads are out in the Afghan hills with the SAS and Delta fellas. Turns out our (Can-eh-jun) army is too small to properly train really badassed soldiers, so our guys get to work out with the Seals, Deltas, SAS, Germans, French, Israelis, and pretty much anyone else who we let use our northern bombing range or who come and workout in our mountains. Military equivelant to cross-training. Apparently they're darned capable soldiers as a consequence.
About our navy. The sub fleet has expanded to 5 boats. Got 'em used from the Brits. Unfortunately there seem to a few leaks... Hmmmmm. Honey, did we mail in that warranty card?
Vigorously stirring the pot!
And how about the wedding party that got busted up. Seems the Afghans like to fire off a few (well, many) rounds to make some noise during the party. (Another) buddy thought they were gunning for him and... 31 dead included bride and groom.
Please don't feed me any lines about unfortunate collateral damage, mistakes happen, yadda yadda yadda. We've all seen the movie and know the moral. Sounds like more that a few of us were IN the movie. Fact is when you give big kids guns, people get killed, and not always the "right" people. Owning a gun, like flying a helicopter, should be a priveledge, not a right. And like a commercial pilot's license, a gun license should have to be earned again and again. 'Cuz people change.
Why is it some Yanks go positively ballistic at the slightest whiff of a gun control conversation?
By the by: Our JTF2 lads are out in the Afghan hills with the SAS and Delta fellas. Turns out our (Can-eh-jun) army is too small to properly train really badassed soldiers, so our guys get to work out with the Seals, Deltas, SAS, Germans, French, Israelis, and pretty much anyone else who we let use our northern bombing range or who come and workout in our mountains. Military equivelant to cross-training. Apparently they're darned capable soldiers as a consequence.
About our navy. The sub fleet has expanded to 5 boats. Got 'em used from the Brits. Unfortunately there seem to a few leaks... Hmmmmm. Honey, did we mail in that warranty card?
Vigorously stirring the pot!
Last edited by Dick Mitten; 21st Jul 2002 at 23:03.
Avoid imitations
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Come on you lot! I suggest handbags at dawn. 
Oh No.
These arguements are why I dont visit justhelicopters.com anymore.
Cant we get back to the funny stuff?
Does anyone really think you can change American culture on this thread?
Doesn't anyone remember trying to convince them that Centrifugal force doesn't exist?
These arguements are why I dont visit justhelicopters.com anymore.
Cant we get back to the funny stuff?
Does anyone really think you can change American culture on this thread?
Doesn't anyone remember trying to convince them that Centrifugal force doesn't exist?
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This thread is in danger of making a little piece of Pprune history - as the first thread ever moved from Rotorheads to JetBlast!
Ease up guys - this is a helicopter forum!
Heliport
Ease up guys - this is a helicopter forum!
Heliport
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Change ones culture? That's a laugh.
To: helmet fire
Quote: “Does anyone really think you can change American culture on this thread?
Doesn't anyone remember trying to convince them that Centrifugal force doesn't exist”?
There is at least one other American that believes in centrifugal force. His name is Frank Robinson. The web address for the patent for the tri hinge rotor used on Robinson helicopters can be reached at the below listed web address. Count the number of times he uses centrifugal force as a descriptor and then count the number of times he uses centripetal force as a descriptor.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...ND+AN/Robinson
Quote: “Does anyone really think you can change American culture on this thread?
Doesn't anyone remember trying to convince them that Centrifugal force doesn't exist”?
There is at least one other American that believes in centrifugal force. His name is Frank Robinson. The web address for the patent for the tri hinge rotor used on Robinson helicopters can be reached at the below listed web address. Count the number of times he uses centrifugal force as a descriptor and then count the number of times he uses centripetal force as a descriptor.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...ND+AN/Robinson
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Oh Nooooooooooooo.
Now look what you've gone and done!!
Lu
I have to admire your ingenuity.
I didn't think even you could make a Robinson point out of this daft thread.
Now look what you've gone and done!!
Lu
I have to admire your ingenuity.
I didn't think even you could make a Robinson point out of this daft thread.
Last edited by Heliport; 22nd Jul 2002 at 17:46.
Fellow aviators.
I completely agree with Crab and I sympatise with Sasless and those others.
Why the hell has any man, an AR15 tucked away convieniently to attack terriorists in his neighbourhood?
American society is full of these brainwashed wackos watching the skys for more than just aliens now. It is a sad display of the decrepid state of American society, whose moral and ethical standpoints are exported to the rest of the planet through numerous media and corperations - regardless of whether the persons want it.
Many many great things are from the states (mostly the great friend I have there...) but really guys; your society is sick. When you feel the need to "pack" a gun to protect yourself then you personally need to review WHY.
Nobody I know in the southern hemisphere (bar the odd bloke who risks getting nailed by a buffallo in the outback) carries a weapon. Even the police in the UK and NZ don't carry firearms!
Personally, I am saddened at the degredation of my home at the bottom of the planet through the importation and saturation of American culture. It is not healthy when applied to another society. Its like mixing black and white .... the black always taints the white.
Like Crab said. We all considered that perhaps S11 may've woken the "giant" to more than crushing the elusive "evil doer". People are pissed off at the US not because of your giving and inventiveness but because of the negative social impacts. You simply cannot go around bullying everyone into your way of thinking.
Sorry to **** you off. Had to be said.
PS: Thanks for making the Sikorsky and Bell....
I completely agree with Crab and I sympatise with Sasless and those others.
Why the hell has any man, an AR15 tucked away convieniently to attack terriorists in his neighbourhood?
American society is full of these brainwashed wackos watching the skys for more than just aliens now. It is a sad display of the decrepid state of American society, whose moral and ethical standpoints are exported to the rest of the planet through numerous media and corperations - regardless of whether the persons want it.
Many many great things are from the states (mostly the great friend I have there...) but really guys; your society is sick. When you feel the need to "pack" a gun to protect yourself then you personally need to review WHY.
Nobody I know in the southern hemisphere (bar the odd bloke who risks getting nailed by a buffallo in the outback) carries a weapon. Even the police in the UK and NZ don't carry firearms!
Personally, I am saddened at the degredation of my home at the bottom of the planet through the importation and saturation of American culture. It is not healthy when applied to another society. Its like mixing black and white .... the black always taints the white.
Like Crab said. We all considered that perhaps S11 may've woken the "giant" to more than crushing the elusive "evil doer". People are pissed off at the US not because of your giving and inventiveness but because of the negative social impacts. You simply cannot go around bullying everyone into your way of thinking.
Sorry to **** you off. Had to be said.
PS: Thanks for making the Sikorsky and Bell....
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I’ll most likely be pilloried for what I am about to say:
I am not a member of the NRA, I do not advocate anarchy and I do not object to individuals owning firearms however I do object to individuals saying that because their government does not allow the ownership of firearms that it is automatically wrong if the American government does. It boils down to this, why does a dog lick his *ss and why does an American buy a gun. The answer to both questions is the same. Because he can.
Prior to coming to Canada I owned a Ruger 45 caliber semi automatic handgun. Since I couldn’t bring it to Canada I left it with my son. Even though I couldn’t bring my gun into Canada I can however purchase a gun for self-protection providing I get the proper license and take a firearms course. At least it is that way in Quebec.
Chastising America because their culture is being imported into other countries is OK providing you are French. But the last person to be critical of the United States for exporting their culture is anyone from England or their colonies. Look at India and Pakistan as well as the Middle East and other areas of the world.
I am not a member of the NRA, I do not advocate anarchy and I do not object to individuals owning firearms however I do object to individuals saying that because their government does not allow the ownership of firearms that it is automatically wrong if the American government does. It boils down to this, why does a dog lick his *ss and why does an American buy a gun. The answer to both questions is the same. Because he can.
Prior to coming to Canada I owned a Ruger 45 caliber semi automatic handgun. Since I couldn’t bring it to Canada I left it with my son. Even though I couldn’t bring my gun into Canada I can however purchase a gun for self-protection providing I get the proper license and take a firearms course. At least it is that way in Quebec.
Chastising America because their culture is being imported into other countries is OK providing you are French. But the last person to be critical of the United States for exporting their culture is anyone from England or their colonies. Look at India and Pakistan as well as the Middle East and other areas of the world.
Thread Starter
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regardless of the issue of gun control... and irrespective of the guy with the gun..
why did the pilot do what he did (as reported in the article)?
Is it hard to get clearance for landing in the area he wanted? Im not sure what the rules are for the US.
It concerns me that things like that only harm GA, and if some pilots cant responsibly operate in the current rules and regs, then it could lead to making everyones life harder if stricter rules are imposed. It doesnt help with public perception either.
why did the pilot do what he did (as reported in the article)?
Is it hard to get clearance for landing in the area he wanted? Im not sure what the rules are for the US.
It concerns me that things like that only harm GA, and if some pilots cant responsibly operate in the current rules and regs, then it could lead to making everyones life harder if stricter rules are imposed. It doesnt help with public perception either.
By comparing criminal victimization surveys from Britain and the Netherlands (countries having low levels of gun ownership) with the U.S., Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck determined that if the U.S. were to have similar rates of "hot" burglaries as these other nations, there would be more than 450,000 additional burglaries per year where the victim was threatened or assaulted. (Britain and the Netherlands have a "hot" burglary rate near 45% versus just under 13% for the U.S., and in the U.S. a victim is threatened or attacked 30% of the time during a "hot" burglary.)
Source: Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.
In studies involving interviews of felons, one of the reasons the majority of burglars try to avoid occupied homes is the chance of getting shot. (Increasing the odds of arrest is another.) A study of Pennsylvania burglary inmates reported that many burglars refrain from late-night burglaries because it's hard to tell if anyone is home, several explaining "That's the way to get shot." (Rengert G. and Wasilchick J., Suburban Burglary: A Time and a Place for Everything, 1985, Springfield, IL: Charles Thomas.)
Taken from the British Press
Britain is now the crime capital of the West
By Sophie Goodchild Home Affairs Correspondent
14 July 2002
Internal links
Britain is now the crime capital of the West
England and Wales now top the Western world's crime league, according to United Nations research.
The UN Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute reveals that people in England and Wales experience more crime per head than people in the 17 other developed countries analysed in the survey.
The findings are expected to cause further embarrassment to the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, who has pledged to have street crime under control by September.
In the UN study, researchers found that nearly 55 crimes are committed per 100 people in England and Wales compared with an average of 35 per 100 in other industrialised countries.
The UN study analysed Home Office crime statistics for England and Wales and also carried out telephone interviews with victims of crime in the 17 countries surveyed, including the US, Japan, France and Spain.
England and Wales also have the worst record for "very serious" offences, recording 18 such crimes for every 100 inhabitants, followed by Australia with 16.
And "contact crime", defined as robbery, sexual assault and assault with force, was second highest in England and Wales – 3.6 per cent of those surveyed. This compares with 1.9 per cent in the US.
News of the survey comes days after the Government published its long-awaited national crime figures, which showed the first increase in burglaries and thefts for 10 years. A record 108,178 street robberies last year prompted the Metropolitan Police Federation to demand an extra 12,000 officers for London alone. The US, by contrast, has managed to reduce its crime rates, despite its reputation for street robberies and shootings.
Shadow Home Secretary Oliver Letwin said: "This just shows why it is ridiculously complacent for the Government to claim a respectable record on crime. The fact is, we have a crime crisis in our inner cities and no coherent programme from the Government to tackle it."
Maybe the Brits might decide to adopt some of our culture after all!
Source: Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.
In studies involving interviews of felons, one of the reasons the majority of burglars try to avoid occupied homes is the chance of getting shot. (Increasing the odds of arrest is another.) A study of Pennsylvania burglary inmates reported that many burglars refrain from late-night burglaries because it's hard to tell if anyone is home, several explaining "That's the way to get shot." (Rengert G. and Wasilchick J., Suburban Burglary: A Time and a Place for Everything, 1985, Springfield, IL: Charles Thomas.)
Taken from the British Press
Britain is now the crime capital of the West
By Sophie Goodchild Home Affairs Correspondent
14 July 2002
Internal links
Britain is now the crime capital of the West
England and Wales now top the Western world's crime league, according to United Nations research.
The UN Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute reveals that people in England and Wales experience more crime per head than people in the 17 other developed countries analysed in the survey.
The findings are expected to cause further embarrassment to the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, who has pledged to have street crime under control by September.
In the UN study, researchers found that nearly 55 crimes are committed per 100 people in England and Wales compared with an average of 35 per 100 in other industrialised countries.
The UN study analysed Home Office crime statistics for England and Wales and also carried out telephone interviews with victims of crime in the 17 countries surveyed, including the US, Japan, France and Spain.
England and Wales also have the worst record for "very serious" offences, recording 18 such crimes for every 100 inhabitants, followed by Australia with 16.
And "contact crime", defined as robbery, sexual assault and assault with force, was second highest in England and Wales – 3.6 per cent of those surveyed. This compares with 1.9 per cent in the US.
News of the survey comes days after the Government published its long-awaited national crime figures, which showed the first increase in burglaries and thefts for 10 years. A record 108,178 street robberies last year prompted the Metropolitan Police Federation to demand an extra 12,000 officers for London alone. The US, by contrast, has managed to reduce its crime rates, despite its reputation for street robberies and shootings.
Shadow Home Secretary Oliver Letwin said: "This just shows why it is ridiculously complacent for the Government to claim a respectable record on crime. The fact is, we have a crime crisis in our inner cities and no coherent programme from the Government to tackle it."
Maybe the Brits might decide to adopt some of our culture after all!
Heliport you are right.
However, one last piece of food for thought for SASless - If I own a gun and shoot a burglar who has a knife, the next burglar will come armed with a gun - this is the escalation that has created the shoot first ask questions later society you love so much.
In UK, violent crime is rising due to lack of police officers and an increase in drug users who must steal to support their habit. Giving everyone a gun won't make it go away.
I'll shut up now.
However, one last piece of food for thought for SASless - If I own a gun and shoot a burglar who has a knife, the next burglar will come armed with a gun - this is the escalation that has created the shoot first ask questions later society you love so much.
In UK, violent crime is rising due to lack of police officers and an increase in drug users who must steal to support their habit. Giving everyone a gun won't make it go away.
I'll shut up now.
SASless et al
I noted in your post that you left out murder rate statistics. Ever heard of "...lies, damn lies and statistics..."?
Have a look at the state of affairs in the US - metal detectors at schools! Mass murders at schools! And you guys think this is okay? Here in Australia guns are not ubiquitous - and I am bl@@dy glad about it. Kids don't take guns to school, and if I give the bird to a road rage moron, he's not likely to point a Glock at me. I like that about Australia.
You can quote statistics until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the big picture - you have a weapons-permissive society and are in the poo.
Have a look at the state of affairs in the US - metal detectors at schools! Mass murders at schools! And you guys think this is okay? Here in Australia guns are not ubiquitous - and I am bl@@dy glad about it. Kids don't take guns to school, and if I give the bird to a road rage moron, he's not likely to point a Glock at me. I like that about Australia.
You can quote statistics until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the big picture - you have a weapons-permissive society and are in the poo.
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Hang On Heliport.......I think we may be nearly finished.......maybe.
Statistics are wonderful when they make your point.....
Guinness Book of Records..........."Which country has 25% of the worlds prison population...........whilst having only 5% of the worlds population.........?"
Let it all hang out.....then we can concentrate on the questionable wisdom as to why we love this industry..!!!
Statistics are wonderful when they make your point.....
Guinness Book of Records..........."Which country has 25% of the worlds prison population...........whilst having only 5% of the worlds population.........?"
Let it all hang out.....then we can concentrate on the questionable wisdom as to why we love this industry..!!!
The changes in the U.S. homicide rate over time are interesting. In 1900 there were few gun laws. New York had no handgun law and California no waiting period. Guns of all types could be ordered by mail or bought anonymously. And the homicide rate was 1.2, about one-sixth of what it is today.
The homicide rate peaked in 1933, during the Depression, and then fell. It was low during and after World War II, but began to rise in the 1960s and 1970s, and reached its high for this century, 10.7, in 1980. It then fell to 8.3 in 1985, a fall of 22 percent.
This welcome news was virtually ignored by the media, which emphasize rises in violence but downplay decreases. Homicide rose again in the late 1980s, but not to its 1980 high.
The homicide rate continued to rise following the Gun Control Act of 1968, while the fall in the early 1980s occurred when anti-crime laws but no new anti-gun laws were passed.
From 1991 to 1997 the U.S. homicide rate fell 30 percent. Liberals credit a strong economy and low unemployment; conservatives point to three-strikes laws and increasing use of the death penalty. We are uncertain which factors to credit. The portion of the population made up by males aged 15 to 24, the most crime-prone group, fell by 5 percent, so this can account for only a fraction of the 30 percent fall in homicide.
In any case, the fall began in 1992, while the Brady Act (waiting period for handgun buyers) and the assault-weapons ban went into effect in 1994. Clearly, these laws cannot be credited for a fall in homicide that had begun two years earlier. Violence is often like an Rorschach test --- what we read into it depends more on us than on it. This subjectivity must be avoided
In short, we all must admit that we have much to learn about the causes of violence. This requires more effort and intellectual honesty than looking to the government to pass yet another law. America is hardly the most violent nation, and our homicide rate has fallen recently, but we are more violent than we used to be --- and than we should be.
Above all consider that while the homicide rate in the United States dropped 20 percent between 1992 and 1996, the number of homicides reported on network news increased by 721 percent.
Reducing Crime: Effective Methods
In Boston, by enforcing the existing laws, (such as a 10 year penalty for felons found to be in possession of a firearm), and employing aggressive intervention strategies, youth gun-homicide was reduced to zero in 1996 and 1997. (Due to the date of the following link, 1997 isn't mentioned.) Total youth homicides dropped some 80% citywide from 1990 to 1995.
This concept in part describes the high prison population in the USA. Placing violent criminals in Prison and keeping them there reduces the crime rate.
The homicide rate peaked in 1933, during the Depression, and then fell. It was low during and after World War II, but began to rise in the 1960s and 1970s, and reached its high for this century, 10.7, in 1980. It then fell to 8.3 in 1985, a fall of 22 percent.
This welcome news was virtually ignored by the media, which emphasize rises in violence but downplay decreases. Homicide rose again in the late 1980s, but not to its 1980 high.
The homicide rate continued to rise following the Gun Control Act of 1968, while the fall in the early 1980s occurred when anti-crime laws but no new anti-gun laws were passed.
From 1991 to 1997 the U.S. homicide rate fell 30 percent. Liberals credit a strong economy and low unemployment; conservatives point to three-strikes laws and increasing use of the death penalty. We are uncertain which factors to credit. The portion of the population made up by males aged 15 to 24, the most crime-prone group, fell by 5 percent, so this can account for only a fraction of the 30 percent fall in homicide.
In any case, the fall began in 1992, while the Brady Act (waiting period for handgun buyers) and the assault-weapons ban went into effect in 1994. Clearly, these laws cannot be credited for a fall in homicide that had begun two years earlier. Violence is often like an Rorschach test --- what we read into it depends more on us than on it. This subjectivity must be avoided
In short, we all must admit that we have much to learn about the causes of violence. This requires more effort and intellectual honesty than looking to the government to pass yet another law. America is hardly the most violent nation, and our homicide rate has fallen recently, but we are more violent than we used to be --- and than we should be.
Above all consider that while the homicide rate in the United States dropped 20 percent between 1992 and 1996, the number of homicides reported on network news increased by 721 percent.
Reducing Crime: Effective Methods
In Boston, by enforcing the existing laws, (such as a 10 year penalty for felons found to be in possession of a firearm), and employing aggressive intervention strategies, youth gun-homicide was reduced to zero in 1996 and 1997. (Due to the date of the following link, 1997 isn't mentioned.) Total youth homicides dropped some 80% citywide from 1990 to 1995.
This concept in part describes the high prison population in the USA. Placing violent criminals in Prison and keeping them there reduces the crime rate.
Steve 76, thanks mate, I'll buy you a beer one day.