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G-reg R22/44s night-lights

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Old 25th Jan 2018, 14:56
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G-reg R22/44s night-lights

Do G-reg R22/44s still require the extra emergency night-lights mod to fly at night?
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 14:59
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Recommended, but not technically required
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 15:22
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Originally Posted by RMK
Recommended, but not technically required

Do you have that in a CAA document or an EASA document?
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 15:31
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Recently did some night flying training (in a G-reg R44) and went over all the applicable night flight related rules with an instructor (don't know what he was reading from) However, I'm only speaking in regards to flying privately; not commercial.

On a side note, for those holding both EASA and FAA licenses, the "in-built" night flying privilege of the FAA license doesn’t work in UK as the UK FAA exemption includes the wording “DAY VFR only” – that I have directly from the CAA

Last edited by RMK; 25th Jan 2018 at 15:44.
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 18:13
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Originally Posted by RMK
Recently did some night flying training (in a G-reg R44) and went over all the applicable night flight related rules with an instructor (don't know what he was reading from) However, I'm only speaking in regards to flying privately; not commercial.

On a side note, for those holding both EASA and FAA licenses, the "in-built" night flying privilege of the FAA license doesn’t work in UK as the UK FAA exemption includes the wording “DAY VFR only” – that I have directly from the CAA
Does that hold for Fâa pilots flying n reg helicopters.
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 18:25
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I wouldn't have thought so, their aircraft, their licence.
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 19:22
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Originally Posted by RMK

On a side note, for those holding both EASA and FAA licenses, the "in-built" night flying privilege of the FAA license doesn’t work in UK as the UK FAA exemption includes the wording “DAY VFR only” – that I have directly from the CAA
Huh, so even with 350 hours of night in the R22 they'd say, sorry Yank, you ain't goin' nowheres 'till the Sun comes up?
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 20:06
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Can anyone support this with some robust facts please?
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 20:36
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Are those extra lights really of any use ? I can‘t believe they‘ll make much of a difference during an emergency.
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 21:38
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I guess the clue is in the wording - they give “more” light😉
If that would help in an emergency depends on the kind of emergency I would think.
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Old 27th Jan 2018, 09:43
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In the air, extra lights are useless. I switch off the landing light pretty quickly on climb. Off-airport landings at night are not allowed anyway where I fly. And on an airport, there is usually sufficient lighting. So for normal operations, there is no need for an extra pair of lights. They just create additional drag.
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Old 27th Jan 2018, 10:46
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Originally Posted by jymil
Are those extra lights really of any use ? I can‘t believe they‘ll make much of a difference during an emergency.
Jymil
I designed the R22/R44 emergency lights many years ago. Properly set up they work really well and complied with the strict CAA requirements at the time of certification. Conducted the certification test flying with Nigel Talbot, the then CAA Test pilot rotorcraft. Before the light modification we were not able to show the student the reality of an engine off/autorotation to the ground as we were not able to fire off the schermuly frare without prior approval, except in an emergency.
Keep your RPM in the green. D
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Old 27th Jan 2018, 16:00
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Originally Posted by jymil
In the air, extra lights are useless. I switch off the landing light pretty quickly on climb. Off-airport landings at night are not allowed anyway where I fly. And on an airport, there is usually sufficient lighting. So for normal operations, there is no need for an extra pair of lights. They just create additional drag.
I am just the opposite. I don't switch on the landing light until I'm at altitude. I feel up there it helps other trafffic see me.
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Old 29th Jan 2018, 06:27
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Originally Posted by r22butters
I don't switch on the landing light until I'm at altitude. I feel up there it helps other trafffic see me.
Well, this is what the navigation lights were intended for.
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Old 29th Jan 2018, 12:51
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Originally Posted by jymil
Well, this is what the navigation lights were intended for.
Those aren't all that visible head on,...especially in a wee little chopper!
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Old 29th Jan 2018, 16:48
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OP here, my original post was only about the regulation rather than who thinks what. Hoping that someone knows the rules...
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Old 29th Jan 2018, 17:22
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I spoke further with an instructor over the weekend. In brief, it’s a technical “grey area” for the R44, but stated clearly for the R66. Upon the EASA certification of the R66, it is explicitly stated it is OK for night VFR in normal production form.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/fi...6_Issue_02.pdf

This being done for the R66, it was apparently implied that the same applies to the R44 (I don’t know of anything specifically written though). The result is that many R44 owners have subsequently removed their “night kits” to get back the weight/drag they incurred.
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