OH You New York Girls....Can't You Dance The Polka!
Thread Starter
OH You New York Girls....Can't You Dance The Polka!
Blackhawks and Seahawks have different foot prints young Fella!
So what were the two f**kwits sat in the doors doing??? Admiring the view and just saying 'Tail clear left' without actually checking???
WoW....slowest hover taxi in history
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
So what were the two f**kwits sat in the doors doing??? Admiring the view and just saying 'Tail clear left' without actually checking???
Thread Starter
If they were looking for "traffic"....they were "Clear Left!".
I wonder why if they were going to turn right....why did they crowd the left side of the taxi way? After all they knew they would be be swinging the Tail in that direction.
I would have crowded the right side and swung the tail away from the nearest obstacle.
Fortunately no one got hurt.
I am reliably informed that the Black Hawk tail wheel assembly was designed to a MilSpec that requires vertical load tolerances but not so much lateral forces.
The video seems to confirm that.
I wonder why if they were going to turn right....why did they crowd the left side of the taxi way? After all they knew they would be be swinging the Tail in that direction.
I would have crowded the right side and swung the tail away from the nearest obstacle.
Fortunately no one got hurt.
I am reliably informed that the Black Hawk tail wheel assembly was designed to a MilSpec that requires vertical load tolerances but not so much lateral forces.
The video seems to confirm that.
You're assuming the two guys in front asked.
Thread Starter
Crab,
As usual....a question for you is how do you know what was said...not said...and if the guy driving initiated the turn incorrectly....how was the crew in the back supposed to prevent that? Rotor Blade Clearance was not an issue.
Does/Did your cabin crew tell you how to drive your Sea King?
I can imagine Jones in the cabin did not ever tell you when to move your Tail Rotor Yaw Control Pedals and at some point assumed you bright enough to know when to do so while taxiing on a heliport....and you would not have been too happy had he done so.
I can see this as being a simple case of a handling error that was avoidable but some complacency crept into the mix as the aircraft was on an open Heliport Operating Area and the guy driving lost situational awareness and made a move that was not anticipated by anyone other then himself.
Put a stop watch to the video and time the interval from the first signs of the aircraft turning to the impact....how long did the crewman have to recognize a problem, and warn the Pilot? I don't think there time enough for anyone to have stopped the unsafe act once that pedal movement began and contact with the barrier.
As usual....a question for you is how do you know what was said...not said...and if the guy driving initiated the turn incorrectly....how was the crew in the back supposed to prevent that? Rotor Blade Clearance was not an issue.
Does/Did your cabin crew tell you how to drive your Sea King?
I can imagine Jones in the cabin did not ever tell you when to move your Tail Rotor Yaw Control Pedals and at some point assumed you bright enough to know when to do so while taxiing on a heliport....and you would not have been too happy had he done so.
I can see this as being a simple case of a handling error that was avoidable but some complacency crept into the mix as the aircraft was on an open Heliport Operating Area and the guy driving lost situational awareness and made a move that was not anticipated by anyone other then himself.
Put a stop watch to the video and time the interval from the first signs of the aircraft turning to the impact....how long did the crewman have to recognize a problem, and warn the Pilot? I don't think there time enough for anyone to have stopped the unsafe act once that pedal movement began and contact with the barrier.
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Sitting in the open door legs a-dangle is all very romantic, until you get crushed from the shins down.
I suspect there will be plenty to be deconstructed from this incident at the safety standaround.
I suspect there will be plenty to be deconstructed from this incident at the safety standaround.
SAS - the clue as to how switched off the guys in the cabin were is in their physical positions - as Um lifting points out, not very professional - kneeling in the door or lying on the floor would be safer.
Yes, you would assume that the person with their hands and feet on the controls would know how to ground taxy and a simple, one-sentence crew brief could have put everyone on the same page and prevented embarrassment.
However, I have been in the back of a few US Mil Blackhawks and crew co-operation was woefully lacking - a definite us and them partition between front and rear crew, with the latter being mostly ignored.
Without hearing the intercom conversations, one has to assume culpability lies with the handling pilot and, depending on which side he was sitting, the non-handling pilot - but sharp rearcrew could have realised what was about to happen and mentioned how close the edge of the pad was.
Yes, you would assume that the person with their hands and feet on the controls would know how to ground taxy and a simple, one-sentence crew brief could have put everyone on the same page and prevented embarrassment.
However, I have been in the back of a few US Mil Blackhawks and crew co-operation was woefully lacking - a definite us and them partition between front and rear crew, with the latter being mostly ignored.
Without hearing the intercom conversations, one has to assume culpability lies with the handling pilot and, depending on which side he was sitting, the non-handling pilot - but sharp rearcrew could have realised what was about to happen and mentioned how close the edge of the pad was.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
SAS - the clue as to how switched off the guys in the cabin were is in their physical positions - as Um lifting points out, not very professional - kneeling in the door or lying on the floor would be safer.
Yes, you would assume that the person with their hands and feet on the controls would know how to ground taxy and a simple, one-sentence crew brief could have put everyone on the same page and prevented embarrassment.
However, I have been in the back of a few US Mil Blackhawks and crew co-operation was woefully lacking - a definite us and them partition between front and rear crew, with the latter being mostly ignored.
Without hearing the intercom conversations, one has to assume culpability lies with the handling pilot and, depending on which side he was sitting, the non-handling pilot - but sharp rearcrew could have realised what was about to happen and mentioned how close the edge of the pad was.
Yes, you would assume that the person with their hands and feet on the controls would know how to ground taxy and a simple, one-sentence crew brief could have put everyone on the same page and prevented embarrassment.
However, I have been in the back of a few US Mil Blackhawks and crew co-operation was woefully lacking - a definite us and them partition between front and rear crew, with the latter being mostly ignored.
Without hearing the intercom conversations, one has to assume culpability lies with the handling pilot and, depending on which side he was sitting, the non-handling pilot - but sharp rearcrew could have realised what was about to happen and mentioned how close the edge of the pad was.
So many things wrong with this post.
Thread Starter
Crab,
Pretty broad brush you wield in your comments.
I thought it was the Brown Jobs that had Blimps!
Pretty broad brush you wield in your comments.
I thought it was the Brown Jobs that had Blimps!
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Is it me or simply an optical illusion but at the end before he hits the tailwheel it seems the aircraft is going to go left and the tail starts swinging slowly right and all of a sudden, change of mind from the pilot and the tail starts swing left rapidly as if he realized he was going the wrong way and hit the tailwheel ??
JD
JD
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I'm curious why the pilot turned to the right in the first place. The Wall Street heliport is set up like a T, and the helicopter (which was the second of two to depart) was taxiing from the long arm of the T to the H-pad at the end to depart, but that would have required a left turn. See: https://goo.gl/maps/SJaRh6ME2Ns for orientation.
As far as what happened to the pad - it continued functioning normally for the most part. The broken helicopter sat where you see it at the end of the video for about a week.
Each of the pads can be landed on directly, and that's what happened. The H was out of service and the two landing spots closest to the corner also appeared to be closed, but everything else functioned as normal, with the tourist flights (407s, AS350s, H120s) using the long arm of the T and the larger corporates (S76, A139) landing directly on the two spots closest to the terminal.
After a week or so, a crew showed up to remove the blades and fold the tail, and then the whole thing was craned onto a barge and brought over to a pier right next to Newark Airport. No idea if it's being repaired in a hangar at Newark or if it was loaded onto a plane and flown back to Norfolk from there.
As far as what happened to the pad - it continued functioning normally for the most part. The broken helicopter sat where you see it at the end of the video for about a week.
Each of the pads can be landed on directly, and that's what happened. The H was out of service and the two landing spots closest to the corner also appeared to be closed, but everything else functioned as normal, with the tourist flights (407s, AS350s, H120s) using the long arm of the T and the larger corporates (S76, A139) landing directly on the two spots closest to the terminal.
After a week or so, a crew showed up to remove the blades and fold the tail, and then the whole thing was craned onto a barge and brought over to a pier right next to Newark Airport. No idea if it's being repaired in a hangar at Newark or if it was loaded onto a plane and flown back to Norfolk from there.
Pretty broad brush you wield in your comments.
Someone in the crew didn't do their job properly - maybe all of them - I'm just considering various factors that could have caused that accident. If you don't consider the possibilities, how can you prevent that sort of thing happening again?
I certainly don't want to be the one to end up in charge of such a fiasco so I am making mental notes to self to ensure my CRM is up to scratch, even when performing 'basic' manoeuvres.
I certainly don't want to be the one to end up in charge of such a fiasco so I am making mental notes to self to ensure my CRM is up to scratch, even when performing 'basic' manoeuvres.
Me too but you have to move with the times - I'm sure it might even be called something else by now!
I have been saved many times by alert rear-crew especially in the SARForce
I have been saved many times by alert rear-crew especially in the SARForce