Midair Collision Near Waddesdon
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Flight Beyond Sight wrote:
"Now is not the time for recriminations but to remember a great guy and also his student who was also an innocent victim".
This I assume was written by the helicopter operator, on the one hand he is saying it is not a time for recriminations, on the other hand he is saying the helicopter crew are innocent, how did he form this opinion, and is he suggesting that the fixed wing aircraft was at fault.
We will not know until the matter has been investigated by the AAIB.
"Now is not the time for recriminations but to remember a great guy and also his student who was also an innocent victim".
This I assume was written by the helicopter operator, on the one hand he is saying it is not a time for recriminations, on the other hand he is saying the helicopter crew are innocent, how did he form this opinion, and is he suggesting that the fixed wing aircraft was at fault.
We will not know until the matter has been investigated by the AAIB.
As a SkyDemon user I look forward to the day when TCAS/ FLARM alerts can be shown on my screen. But I'll still follow the Neil Williams 9/1 lookout procedure.
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Firstly, condolences to all those affected by this tragic accident.
Secondly. Far, far, far too early to say whether anyone was (or was not!) at fault!
Now
TCAS works great inside Controlled Airspace.
TCAS works great when everything you could hit, has a transponder. Preferably with an altitude read out.
TCAS works great when pilots have been taught how to use it, and follow it’s commands religiously. Whether or not they can actually ‘see’ what they presume to be their conflicting traffic!
From what I’ve heard of the area around WAP (and other popular GA locations, the danger is, pilots would be swamped by information, and deconfliction manoeuvre demands.
TCAS does not work great when pilots start to ignore it due to it sucking up too much of their attention. Much of it inside the aircraft, when they should be looking out.
TCAS can be confusing, and frankly rather scary when it commands conflicting manoeuvres due to multiple simoultaneous threats. Or if the other aircraft does not follow coordinated actions.
Coordinated actions often require specific rates of climb or descent. In such situations, TCAS requires Instrument Flying skills, the trajectory of which may also take you into cloud.
Knowledge of TCAS seems a little ‘rudimentary’ by some on this thread?
TCAS is not a panacea. It simply brings different problems. Some of which, an ‘average’ GA pilot might struggle with?
Secondly. Far, far, far too early to say whether anyone was (or was not!) at fault!
Now
TCAS works great inside Controlled Airspace.
TCAS works great when everything you could hit, has a transponder. Preferably with an altitude read out.
TCAS works great when pilots have been taught how to use it, and follow it’s commands religiously. Whether or not they can actually ‘see’ what they presume to be their conflicting traffic!
From what I’ve heard of the area around WAP (and other popular GA locations, the danger is, pilots would be swamped by information, and deconfliction manoeuvre demands.
TCAS does not work great when pilots start to ignore it due to it sucking up too much of their attention. Much of it inside the aircraft, when they should be looking out.
TCAS can be confusing, and frankly rather scary when it commands conflicting manoeuvres due to multiple simoultaneous threats. Or if the other aircraft does not follow coordinated actions.
Coordinated actions often require specific rates of climb or descent. In such situations, TCAS requires Instrument Flying skills, the trajectory of which may also take you into cloud.
Knowledge of TCAS seems a little ‘rudimentary’ by some on this thread?
TCAS is not a panacea. It simply brings different problems. Some of which, an ‘average’ GA pilot might struggle with?
There does some to be some confusion. What is being discussed is traffic avoidance. None of these systems provide any instruction beyond placing aircraft position (accurate or estimated) on a display followed by a verbal warning if any may be likely to cause a conflict (that's how the garmin works anyway).
The similarity to TCAS is that aircraft will interrogate other transponders for information rather than passively listening in to responses from transponders to SSR.
It is an informational tool to help provide better awareness, nothing more.
The similarity to TCAS is that aircraft will interrogate other transponders for information rather than passively listening in to responses from transponders to SSR.
It is an informational tool to help provide better awareness, nothing more.
Full blown TCAS isn't really what is needed but a simpler (and probably cheaper) TAS would fit the bill for GA (no RAs to worry about - just threat indications).
Join Date: May 2004
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Sincere condolences
I just wanted to send my sincere condolences to the families of those who died so tragically yesterday. My friends at Helicopter Services are in my thoughts at this difficult time.
Mike S.
Mike S.
My thoughts are with Mikes family and everyone at HS. I am fortunate to have spent many hours in Mikes company, and those memories will never be forgotten. The industry has lost a true gentleman and a first class aviator.
The devil will be in the detail but...
Two aircraft out of the same airfield have a midair in a known busy piece of sky and we think having an electronic device that requires even more head inside the cockpit is going to help ? I wonder, was this a two ship ? It seems a very odd chance event otherwise.
Two aircraft out of the same airfield have a midair in a known busy piece of sky and we think having an electronic device that requires even more head inside the cockpit is going to help ? I wonder, was this a two ship ? It seems a very odd chance event otherwise.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
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We have a simplified version of TCAS on our helicopters that gives an audio and visual warning. It’s not massively accurate, but it does tell you that there is ‘something there’. A recent airprox released near Lancaster, shows the true value of such a system. It doesn’t guarantee deconfliction, but it adds to situational awareness and doesn’t require a lot of heads in
People, it’s a no brainer. ANYTHING like this that adds awareness is good value
People, it’s a no brainer. ANYTHING like this that adds awareness is good value
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Probably the same type of chance event that caused two chipmunks to have a head on collision at Middle Wallop on a gin clear day while taxying.
Phil
Phil
We have a simplified version of TCAS on our helicopters that gives an audio and visual warning. It’s not massively accurate, but it does tell you that there is ‘something there’. A recent airprox released near Lancaster, shows the true value of such a system. It doesn’t guarantee deconfliction, but it adds to situational awareness and doesn’t require a lot of heads in
People, it’s a no brainer. ANYTHING like this that adds awareness is good value
People, it’s a no brainer. ANYTHING like this that adds awareness is good value
.
No that isnt the same level of chance is it ? Taxying suggests the constraints of at least the boundary of the airfield and 2 dimensions. That and the constraints in forward vision with a taildragger... but yes accidents do occur and in the most odd /freak manner.
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My thoughts are with Mike's family and all at HS. You taught me well and examined me with flare and fairness. You didn't teach me how to fly a helicopter, you taught me how to fly.
RIP Mike. A true great.
RIP Mike. A true great.
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I used to fly in the USA and if I remember correctly you could easily get a 'flight following' service giving deconfliction (can any US pilots confirm?) Was amazed to find that in the much more cramped UK airspace, LARS is seen as a luxury.
It's like the English feel awfully embarrassed to have to bother those busy chaps at Farnborough.
It's like the English feel awfully embarrassed to have to bother those busy chaps at Farnborough.
I recently installed Mode S in/out. I've never had traffic information available to me before and it sure is nice. After a few days of "playing with the new toy" it is now in my background scan. The voice will warn me of anything close. I leave the traffic display up on the panel GPS in case the tablet goes wonky, and have the tablet set to overlay traffic on the map display, so I get good situational awareness whenever I check the map.
You can still be "surprised" when in a TAS only area/altitude. It's actually kind of sobering when the technology picks up the traffic before you do. An object lesson, with multiple messages: a) you can always do a better job of scanning and b) the technology, used correctly, does add safety margin.
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RIP Mike, great guy who i flew with many times over the years.
"TCAS should be made compulsory for all GA" Stupid statement!!! Eyes should be outside the cockpit, we don't need more gadgets pulling us inside more than they are already. Unfortunately just a terrible accident, not the first and won't be the last
"TCAS should be made compulsory for all GA" Stupid statement!!! Eyes should be outside the cockpit, we don't need more gadgets pulling us inside more than they are already. Unfortunately just a terrible accident, not the first and won't be the last