Sikorsky S-76 down in the North Sea (Threads merged)
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Just a note, "excellent" weather for one thing may not be so "excellent" for another.
Glassy water and light and variable winds (one way of interpreting the above) are by no means excellent conditions. We, thus far, know nothing.
Glassy water and light and variable winds (one way of interpreting the above) are by no means excellent conditions. We, thus far, know nothing.
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Heloteacher,
I agree - calm or light winds with a flat sea are not ideal flight conditions.
Once again the media feast for sensational reporting has led to speculation bordering on hysteria. Whatever the cause (and I'm sceptical about major mechanical failure), let us all spare a thought for those who are directly or indirectly involved. There, but for the grace of god, go all of us.
I agree - calm or light winds with a flat sea are not ideal flight conditions.
Once again the media feast for sensational reporting has led to speculation bordering on hysteria. Whatever the cause (and I'm sceptical about major mechanical failure), let us all spare a thought for those who are directly or indirectly involved. There, but for the grace of god, go all of us.
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My thoghts for all those that have lost loved ones in this accident, but also lets not forget that the Engineer who signed the A/C Servicable and all those that worked on it are now going through all sorts of hell and wondering if perhaps they missed something while inspecting and servicing the Aircraft, even if the've done everything right, the worry is still there.
Once again my thought's to all involved particually the Engineers
Once again my thought's to all involved particually the Engineers
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semirigid rotor
The pilot of the Sea King who got to the scene half an hour after the accident described the visibility as good. SAR pilots in that area spend most of their time flying over the sea. He wasn't some passing tourist desibing visibility. He also thought, rightly or wrongly, that the little evidence available pointed to a catastrophic mechanical failure.
Please don't take offence, but I can't understand how you can say we shouldn't discuss possible causes AND then be the first person on this thread to suggest possible pilot error, throwing in you're "sceptical about major mechanical failure"!
We all know it's just theory until we know more from the AAIB investigation but I doubt if there's many crewrooms where pilots haven't discussed this tragedy, their theories, experience offshore flying, the S76 etc. That's what happened in ours.
Did you follow the threads after the PaveHawk crash? No accident report yet, but the quality of discussion was outstanding and some of the posts were nothing short of brilliant.
I don't think anyone needs reminding to "spare a thought for those directly or indirectly involved." Just look at all the messages that have been posted. We're a small community and we all know 'There but for the grace of God' we could all go.
'Talking' to each other on Rotorheads is just like talking to each other in the crewroom. It's just unrealistic to expect pilots not to exchange ideas, give opinions. It's natural, and it's not disrespectful of the dead.
The pilot of the Sea King who got to the scene half an hour after the accident described the visibility as good. SAR pilots in that area spend most of their time flying over the sea. He wasn't some passing tourist desibing visibility. He also thought, rightly or wrongly, that the little evidence available pointed to a catastrophic mechanical failure.
Please don't take offence, but I can't understand how you can say we shouldn't discuss possible causes AND then be the first person on this thread to suggest possible pilot error, throwing in you're "sceptical about major mechanical failure"!
We all know it's just theory until we know more from the AAIB investigation but I doubt if there's many crewrooms where pilots haven't discussed this tragedy, their theories, experience offshore flying, the S76 etc. That's what happened in ours.
Did you follow the threads after the PaveHawk crash? No accident report yet, but the quality of discussion was outstanding and some of the posts were nothing short of brilliant.
I don't think anyone needs reminding to "spare a thought for those directly or indirectly involved." Just look at all the messages that have been posted. We're a small community and we all know 'There but for the grace of God' we could all go.
'Talking' to each other on Rotorheads is just like talking to each other in the crewroom. It's just unrealistic to expect pilots not to exchange ideas, give opinions. It's natural, and it's not disrespectful of the dead.
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The names of the crew have been released:-
From BBC news online
The pilot has been named as Captain Phillip Mark Wake, 42, from the Norwich area, and his co-pilot as First Officer Phillip Dearden, 32, of Norwich.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/...00/2136765.stm
From BBC news online
The pilot has been named as Captain Phillip Mark Wake, 42, from the Norwich area, and his co-pilot as First Officer Phillip Dearden, 32, of Norwich.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/...00/2136765.stm
My sincere condolences to the families. May those on board rest in peace.
Back on page 3 there was a mention of the possibility that the remaining personnel on the rig spotted an explosion on the aircraft. Has this been at all verified? Was the crash site close to the rig? Within sight? Is this why rescue teams were so quickly notified despite the absence of a mayday?
Also, was the accident on the way back from the rig, or the way too it?
Back on page 3 there was a mention of the possibility that the remaining personnel on the rig spotted an explosion on the aircraft. Has this been at all verified? Was the crash site close to the rig? Within sight? Is this why rescue teams were so quickly notified despite the absence of a mayday?
Also, was the accident on the way back from the rig, or the way too it?
From what I saw on the news, some of the rig crew saw/heard an explosion. Apparently within a couple of miles of the rig, and I think on the way to it. I am sure I will be corrected if I am off the mark.
I have re read the thread and appologise to Heliport - he has already posted the answer to my second Q. He quotes the BBC who say that the aircraft went from the airfield to the Clipper rig, then departed Clipper for Sana Fe Monarch. The accident occurred approx 2 miles from Santa Fe Monarch - according to the BBC. Apparently from all the quotes thus far, the accident was a catastrophic event that prevented any semblance of a controlled ditching.
As echoed from the posts above, with such a well run, experienced operation, flying such a safe and proven airframe, such accidents are extremely rare.
Do they have CVRs and FDRs fitted to these airframes?
Edited to delete questions that may be interpreted as undue speculation.
As echoed from the posts above, with such a well run, experienced operation, flying such a safe and proven airframe, such accidents are extremely rare.
Do they have CVRs and FDRs fitted to these airframes?
Edited to delete questions that may be interpreted as undue speculation.
Last edited by helmet fire; 19th Jul 2002 at 07:16.
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I see no way the baggage doors could cause it - they're hinged in the front, latched in the rear, & a lose door would tend to stay closed, not blow off. The cowlings on top aren't likely, either. I don't recall any accidents relating to them, but my memory isn't perfect.
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In all deference to our curiosity and deep interest, nothing can be gained by pure speculation. There are fine professionals working this as we "speak" and we will know what there is in just a few days.
Hang in there. Someone posted, after the Air Force Mt. Hood accident, that we will end up remembering the finest speculation, and the real cause, from which we could learn, will be forgotten.
Hang in there. Someone posted, after the Air Force Mt. Hood accident, that we will end up remembering the finest speculation, and the real cause, from which we could learn, will be forgotten.
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Extracts from latest Statements by Shell
Let us hope and pray that the bodies in the helicopter will be recovered and identified soon, and the missing three found, so that their families will be relieved of the additional anguish they must be suffering because of the uncertainty they face at present.
Heliport
Moderator
North Sea Helicopter Crash Update
"On behalf of the joint accident investigation team, Shell U.K. Exploration and Production can advise that the specialist survey vessels continued the search for the missing people and the wreckage of the helicopter throughout the night. The sonar contacts on the sea bed identified by the Geosearcher vessel were evaluated using an ROV (Remotely Operated Vehicle) deployed from the Kommander Subsea.
At approximately 08.00 this morning wreckage was located together with three bodies.
The location of this wreckage was close to the most probable crash site based on witness statements and analysis of radar data. Plans are currently being developed to position the DSV Mayo over the site to allow divers to recover the bodies when tidal and current conditions allow safe diving to take place.
At this stage we are not sure how much of the helicopter has been found and therefore the search for the remaining three missing persons and wreckage continues.
The names of those whose bodies have been recovered and identified are:
Stuart Coggon (45), from Middlesbrough.
Draughtsman with Amec Offshore Development.
Philip George Stone, (53), from Norwich.
Senior Engineer with Amec Offshore Development.
Kevin John Taylor, (50), from Norwich.
Technician with Amec Offshore Development.
Denis Andrew Kelleher, (40), from Lancashire.
Medic with Oilfield Medical Services.
Angus MacArthur, (38), from Dingwall.
Surveyor with Hi-Cad Technical.
The other six on board were:
Geoffrey Bispham (51), from Norfolk.
Operations Supervisor with Shell Expro.
David Christopher Graves, (33), from Suffolk.
Operations Technician with Shell Expro.
Douglas Paul Learwood, (40), from Middlesbrough.
Instrument Technician with Shell Expro.
Paul Leo Francis, (48), from Norfolk.
Technician with Industrial Controls.
Phillip Mark Wake, (42), from Norwich.
Captain with Bristow Helicopters Ltd.
Phillip James Dearden, (32), from Norwich.
First Officer with Bristow helicopters Ltd.
"On behalf of the joint accident investigation team, Shell U.K. Exploration and Production can advise that the specialist survey vessels continued the search for the missing people and the wreckage of the helicopter throughout the night. The sonar contacts on the sea bed identified by the Geosearcher vessel were evaluated using an ROV (Remotely Operated Vehicle) deployed from the Kommander Subsea.
At approximately 08.00 this morning wreckage was located together with three bodies.
The location of this wreckage was close to the most probable crash site based on witness statements and analysis of radar data. Plans are currently being developed to position the DSV Mayo over the site to allow divers to recover the bodies when tidal and current conditions allow safe diving to take place.
At this stage we are not sure how much of the helicopter has been found and therefore the search for the remaining three missing persons and wreckage continues.
The names of those whose bodies have been recovered and identified are:
Stuart Coggon (45), from Middlesbrough.
Draughtsman with Amec Offshore Development.
Philip George Stone, (53), from Norwich.
Senior Engineer with Amec Offshore Development.
Kevin John Taylor, (50), from Norwich.
Technician with Amec Offshore Development.
Denis Andrew Kelleher, (40), from Lancashire.
Medic with Oilfield Medical Services.
Angus MacArthur, (38), from Dingwall.
Surveyor with Hi-Cad Technical.
The other six on board were:
Geoffrey Bispham (51), from Norfolk.
Operations Supervisor with Shell Expro.
David Christopher Graves, (33), from Suffolk.
Operations Technician with Shell Expro.
Douglas Paul Learwood, (40), from Middlesbrough.
Instrument Technician with Shell Expro.
Paul Leo Francis, (48), from Norfolk.
Technician with Industrial Controls.
Phillip Mark Wake, (42), from Norwich.
Captain with Bristow Helicopters Ltd.
Phillip James Dearden, (32), from Norwich.
First Officer with Bristow helicopters Ltd.
Let us hope and pray that the bodies in the helicopter will be recovered and identified soon, and the missing three found, so that their families will be relieved of the additional anguish they must be suffering because of the uncertainty they face at present.
Heliport
Moderator
Last edited by Heliport; 19th Jul 2002 at 23:41.
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Nick, well said
Hoverman, please read my post again, I never said aircrew eror was to blame. By the media all jumping on the mechanical failure theory, the implication is an engineering error. My thoughts are not only with the family of those who have lost someone in this tragedy, but also the engineers who must be beside themselves with worry.
Hoverman, please read my post again, I never said aircrew eror was to blame. By the media all jumping on the mechanical failure theory, the implication is an engineering error. My thoughts are not only with the family of those who have lost someone in this tragedy, but also the engineers who must be beside themselves with worry.
It's not just an adventure....
it's just a job!
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Just a question for those who know.
Are the BHL 76's equipped with the 'Air Deployable Rafts and Door Jettison System' and is there any way that system could deploy uncommanded, say if the door-pin was not completely seated? Secondly, I thought the North Sea machines only had HUMS and not a HUMS/FDR mix is this correct?
Finally, my deepest condolences to the families and friends of the crews and passengers.
OffshoreIgor
Are the BHL 76's equipped with the 'Air Deployable Rafts and Door Jettison System' and is there any way that system could deploy uncommanded, say if the door-pin was not completely seated? Secondly, I thought the North Sea machines only had HUMS and not a HUMS/FDR mix is this correct?
Finally, my deepest condolences to the families and friends of the crews and passengers.
OffshoreIgor
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All Bristow aircraft have HUMS fitted, designed originally by Bristows and Plessey and some others.
This system, called IHUMS, has combined CVR and FDR and HUMS in the installation, with the HUMS information on a data card, as well as some of it on the data recorder.
This system, called IHUMS, has combined CVR and FDR and HUMS in the installation, with the HUMS information on a data card, as well as some of it on the data recorder.
It's not just an adventure....
it's just a job!
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Woolf, 400.
I'm aware that BHL machines are IHUMS equipped as one of our former Lloyd machines is so equipped, but we have a seperate FDR in addition to the DPAU. I'm wondering if straight IHUMS is a self contained unit on BHL machines or independant but intergrated like ours.
It will be interesting none the less when they recover the FDR/CVR for analysis. I only say this because many 76 operators worldwide wait for the initial investigation.
OffshoreIgor
I'm aware that BHL machines are IHUMS equipped as one of our former Lloyd machines is so equipped, but we have a seperate FDR in addition to the DPAU. I'm wondering if straight IHUMS is a self contained unit on BHL machines or independant but intergrated like ours.
It will be interesting none the less when they recover the FDR/CVR for analysis. I only say this because many 76 operators worldwide wait for the initial investigation.
OffshoreIgor