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HNZ wins SAR in Oz

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HNZ wins SAR in Oz

Old 19th Sep 2017, 17:32
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,042
I dislike "Bowties" as well as the overuse of "Risk Assessments" which, even though a good idea, can turn into a 1hr debate as we assess every possible concern, including asteroid hits on the planet. Some folks seem to think we start at the premiss of "We are not going!" and there is a prize for not departing.
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 18:15
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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The bowties should already be in place for any standard operation; risk assessment should there be a chance of going outside those norms. Short and sweet - agreed. Don't think I was ever accused of not wishing to depart ......
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 19:08
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
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I think the blame for the cheap part, if it is true has to lie with the oil/gas company that has contracted HNZ.
If money wasn't an option why did they change from BHL to HNZ, especially if Bristows were so shiny with all the SAR guys to match.
The company's letting the contracts out are the ones driving the prices down so if HNZ can do it cheaper good on them but the customer gets what they pay for.
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 23:24
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fadecdegraded View Post
I think the blame for the cheap part, if it is true has to lie with the oil/gas company that has contracted HNZ.
If money wasn't an option why did they change from BHL to HNZ, especially if Bristows were so shiny with all the SAR guys to match.
The company's letting the contracts out are the ones driving the prices down so if HNZ can do it cheaper good on them but the customer gets what they pay for.
Except the customer isn't getting the All-weather SAR service they asked operators to bid for! Maybe if BHL had tendered to 'deliver' by not even delivering day only SAR, 3 months after the contract start date and All-weather SAR possibly 6-12 months after that, they would have been slightly more competitive too!!
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 01:33
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect the rush to a cheaper service will only change when a evenings mainstream news coverage starts with pictures of a lot of people in orange being pulled from the water. Australian operators & O&G companies are fortunate in that the rest of the country has no idea what goes in in the NWS or Timor Sea.
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 07:33
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Originally Posted by Wreckingball View Post
Except the customer isn't getting the All-weather SAR service they asked operators to bid for! Maybe if BHL had tendered to 'deliver' by not even delivering day only SAR, 3 months after the contract start date and All-weather SAR possibly 6-12 months after that, they would have been slightly more competitive too!!
Like I said you get what you pay for, I'm sure BHL have some pretty clever marketing people that know a lot more detail of the contract than I certainly do and I suspect more than you as well and would have put in a price to reflect the service they could provide, if price wasn't an issue for the customer why would they have not chosen BHL?
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 08:40
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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I think that is the whole point here - it costs a certain amount to provide a 24-Hr all weather SAR service, BHL know what that is and will have bid with a modest (or even zero) profit on top (I think they bid at a loss for UKSAR).

It is easy enough to undercut the competition if you are prepared to cut corners or don't accurately know what the costs of that service are.

So in going for the lowest bidder, the customer has ended up with a bag of crap instead of what they asked for. Surely CASA should pull the plug on this operation or the customer should sack HNZ.
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 09:05
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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And its completely disingenuous for HNZ to blame the regulator for being 3 months late on delivery of a SAR service. Its any operators responsibility inline with bidding a contract to ensure they have the ops manuals, maintenance systems, training procedures and practices ready to go. If the regulator does an audit and finds you completely wanting in these areas you can hardly blame CASA for not having your s#@t in a pile its complete garbage!!!
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 11:54
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Well if another company came along and took your job away from you by underbidding and then failing to deliver, how would you feel?
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 13:10
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Crab, it's taking you a long time to understand the commercial world! They didn't just come along, they were probably invited. And it would still hurt if the successful new bidder provided more money and a better service. Swear, curse, join management ..... but take it as an opportunity for pastures new!
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 14:15
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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No, the commercial world is very easy to understand - money talks and everything else comes second - doesn't make it good practice though.

Keynsian economics suggests that competition lowers prices and raises quality - sadly that theory doesn't survive first contact with reality where we just see lower prices and poorer standards, not a great way to do aviation.

Last edited by [email protected]; 21st Sep 2017 at 07:13.
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 23:23
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brother View Post
Er no because they didn't win.

Im not on sar too busy doing runs for inpex. Everyone knows the delay is bad but HNZ will get it done. All you blokes seem to be more wound up than HNZ, CASA and the customer put together.
Brother, too busy? or just not qualified?
Enjoy your run offshore, safe trip and hurry back... you wouldn't want to end up in the water in your red suit when it gets dark. It'd be a long time waiting to be rescued by Bristow in the morning!! Maybe then you too would be wishing that HNZ actually knew what they were doing!!
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 23:51
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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I don't know about that, however the shame is its bad for the whole industry when such poor performance in such a critical role is allowed to enter the fray. I don't know how you feel about doing early and late shuttles involving two hours at night overwater in an extremely remote area without any SAR coverage, doesn't fill me with joy.
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Old 21st Sep 2017, 07:14
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Bobbin' in the Oggin in the dark - no thanks.
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Old 21st Sep 2017, 08:06
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Bobbin' in the Oggin in the dark - no thanks.

What are you worried about?
Your life jacket has a light, and whistle, for attracting attention!




At least it's warm water.........
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Old 21st Sep 2017, 08:48
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Your life jacket has a light, and whistle, for attracting attention
Yes, the attention of sharks!
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Old 21st Sep 2017, 09:07
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Twist - have you ever done night wets? Not a nice environment even in warm water when you find yourself alone.
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Old 21st Sep 2017, 09:26
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Don't worry about the sharks , its the croc's that will finish you
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Old 21st Sep 2017, 10:17
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by ersa View Post
Don't worry about the sharks , its the croc's that will finish you
Or incompetent SAR operators like HNZ!!
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Old 21st Sep 2017, 17:57
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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the company with the clever marketing people that you are now defending who won sar and took your job in england
Yes, but that only happened because the Govt and MoD were determined to divest themselves of costs and especially those of new helicopters.

The difference is the BHL did stand up on time, albeit not quite within the contract terms as far as aircraft were concerned.
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