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SAR S-92 Missing Ireland

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SAR S-92 Missing Ireland

Old 1st Apr 2017, 10:40
  #661 (permalink)  
 
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Search teams prepared to lift wreckage of crashed helicopter Rescue 116

An attempt to tilt the aircraft, using inflatable lifting bags, had to be abandoned when conditions proved too challenging for Naval Service divers to operate in.


Now, search co-ordinators plan to lift the wreckage directly from the sea bed and bring it to the surface.


Search teams are anxious to see if there is any trace of the missing crew members in an area directly underneath the wreckage.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0401/86...of-rescue-116/

Probably have about 24 hours before swells rise again and the next chance of a calm sea is sometime after Wednesday.
http://met.ie/forecasts/5day-ireland.asp
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 15:27
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Joseph O'Connor paying tribute with his powerful poem 'Rescue 116'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQiKQtVIvFQ
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 17:25
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No mechanical anomolies detected in initial FDR/CVR analysis.

Rescue 116 crash: ?No mechanical anomalies? in analysis of data
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 18:22
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"An initial analysis has been conducted of the data retrieved from the helicopter’s Health and Usage Monitoring System (HUMS) and the Multi-Purpose Flight Recorder (MPFR). No mechanical anomalies have been identified during this initial analysis,"
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0401/86...of-rescue-116/
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 20:26
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Does anyone know if the FMS installed in this machine have an alphabetic database, which would automatically jump to the next entered location as the identifier is entered?

For example, BlackRock would appear before BlackSod in a predictive alphabetic sequence as it autocompletes as the letters are selected in comparison to the existing database?

I'm not familiar with the configuration or equipment installed in these helicopters.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 20:40
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Originally Posted by Cyclic Hotline View Post
Does anyone know if the FMS installed in this machine have an alphabetic database, which would automatically jump to the next entered location as the identifier is entered?

For example, BlackRock would appear before BlackSod in a predictive alphabetic sequence as it autocompletes as the letters are selected in comparison to the existing database?

I'm not familiar with the configuration or equipment installed in these helicopters.
No doesn't happen

However R is next to S on the key pad. So if it were BlackR or BlackS it's only a finger tap apart. However I have no idea what they are called in this particular database.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 21:07
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BROK and BSOD would make more sense in my world.
I have no idea as to what the naming convention is in place in the ICG operation.
Many operations have oft used fixed waypoints as a permanent part of the nav database they subscibe to. Things like company approved approaches are also incorporated.
Having said that we are entering the world of needless speculation.

Just hoping we get the missing home to their families soon.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 21:46
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Looking at the picture of Blackrock at the start of the RTE news report a few posts ago. That's a big lump of rock. You've got to ask if their radar was working. That would have been an enormous radar return.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 21:47
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"No mechanical anomalies" is I suppose a blessing to my home patch of the N Sea where the S92 is currently ubiquitous, but I guess the corollary to that is that it was CFIT. Such a shame, but it does reinforce the point I was trying to make many pages ago, that IFR approaches off-airfield do carry a relatively high risk. They are probably intrinsically safe in theory, but add in human factors and there are more opportunities for human error to creep in. As I said earlier, I do feel that SAR crews and their dispatchers sometimes don't really appreciate this, and perhaps need to be more mindful of it when carrying out a role that is not life-or-death. Let's be clear, these types of approaches are "safe", (whatever that means), but not "as safe" as an airfield IFR approach.

In the early days of the N Sea we used to climb up rig legs, hover taxi in fog to Unst etc, and these things were relatively safe - "its a helicopter". But not safe enough, and now we are no longer allowed to do it.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 21:49
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Originally Posted by The SAR RC View Post
Looking at the picture of Blackrock at the start of the RTE news report a few posts ago. That's a big lump of rock. You've got to ask if their radar was working. That would have been an enormous radar return.
Is it that easy to tell the difference between a big lump of rock and a heavy rain shower? And of course the radar doesn't tell you the height of the rock.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 21:54
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Originally Posted by HeliComparator View Post
Is it that easy to tell the difference between a big lump of rock and a heavy rain shower? And of course the radar doesn't tell you the height of the rock.
Yes there's a difference
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 21:57
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Originally Posted by helicrazi View Post
Yes there's a difference
Are you going to tell us what it is?
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 22:00
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Originally Posted by HeliComparator View Post
Are you going to tell us what it is?
Shape, size, colour change at different ranges, showers tend to change colour as they get closer or you closer to them.

Wasn't it low cloud and fog that night? Would you be expecting a heavy shower in those conditions with a red return?

For an approach to land I would also have GMAP or GMAP 2 selected, so the return the radar is showing is most likely to be of the solid kind.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 22:08
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Originally Posted by helicrazi View Post
Shape, size, colour change at different ranges, showers tend to change colour as they get closer or you closer to them.

Wasn't it low cloud and fog that night? Would you be expecting a heavy shower in those conditions with a red return?

For an approach to land I would also have GMAP or GMAP 2 selected, so the return the radar is showing is most likely to be of the solid kind.
My point is that yes there are differences, but fairly minor ones as you describe. It is therefore not impossible that they disregarded the return as being weather (despite the actual weather being as you say) - or at least it is as valid an explanation as the radar being U/S. If the radar had actually been U/S, would they have continued with the approach?
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 22:09
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Everybody play nice please.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 22:13
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Originally Posted by HeliComparator View Post
My point is that yes there are differences, but fairly minor ones as you describe. It is therefore not impossible that they disregarded the return as being weather (despite the actual weather being as you say) - or at least it is as valid an explanation as the radar being U/S. If the radar had actually been U/S, would they have continued with the approach?
Can't imagine a scenario where you would decend IMC to get visual underneath knowing the radar is U/S? Other than a greater emergency and lack of other options...
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 22:17
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Originally Posted by albatross View Post
Everybody play nice please.
I thought we were? If it transpires that it was crew error, would you rather it was blamed on that specific crew, or that they were the victims of the culture, custom and practice of SAR?
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 22:55
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Is there any information on the lat long of the vessel that at one point, both machines were heading to? So far, all we hear is 150 west of Ireland.

I ask because from the track almost out of Dublin, but certainly leaving the Mayo shore, R116 was pointing directly at Blackrock. Either their heading was for the ship, and Blackrock was coincidentally directly underneath on the outbound, or they were heading to Blackrock.

If that is the ship track, it may mean that at the point where they couldn't raise R118, the crew made the decision to abandon the top cover mission at least for the time being, and go to Blacksod for fuel.

Various scenarios being discussed are then in play.

I do think that what their intention was heading west from Achill, I think it was, is important.

I haven't seen that track map for a while, but it seems that they jogged to starboard just as they came on the rock, before tracking again on the same heading.

Has anybody got R118's track?
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 23:14
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Originally Posted by HeliComparator View Post
I thought we were? If it transpires that it was crew error, would you rather it was blamed on that specific crew, or that they were the victims of the culture, custom and practice of SAR?
No insult was implied or intended towards anyone.
Sorry if you thought I had.

I would like that they find out exactly what happened and correct the problems that caused this tragedy.

The list of folks We have lost in this business is long enough already.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 23:30
  #680 (permalink)  
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Statement from the AAIU

Air Accident Investigation Unit (AAIU) Statement in relation to R116 Investigation

The Chief Inspector of Air Accidents, Mr. Jurgen Whyte, in conjunction with the appointed Investigator-in-Charge, Mr. Paul Farrell, wish to make the following statement.

The AAIU is keenly aware of the loss and grief of the families, friends and colleagues of the crew of R116 and extends its condolences to all concerned. The AAIU continues to work with other agencies to locate and recover the two missing crew members.

The AAIU is mindful that Sikorsky S-92A helicopters are in operation around the world in a variety of roles, including Search and Rescue. Following an event such as this, many operators and agencies are anxious to learn if any matters are identified during the ongoing investigation that may require immediate safety actions.

The Investigation is still at a preliminary stage. However, an initial analysis has been conducted of the data retrieved from the helicopter’s Health and Usage Monitoring System (HUMS) and the Multi-Purpose Flight Recorder (MPFR). No mechanical anomalies have been identified during this initial analysis.

The AAIU Investigation is ongoing and a Preliminary Report will be issued in the near future.
Ends
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