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Old 2nd Apr 2017, 20:06
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah, I think with Jays last post, it's quite clear that whilst he may have a view, it's now simply a attempt at trolling. Crack on chap.
Reinforces my sheer disdain at the petty fawning of the police to twitter and these pathetic tv shows that do nothing but give away capability.
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Old 2nd Apr 2017, 20:14
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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The point I am trying to make is traffic and air ops are the sexy part of UK policing at the detriment of boots on the ground. Hence twitter feeds and reality tv shows.

The figures I posted earlier of 10% burglary clear up rate in Bedfordshire is a disgrace.
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Old 2nd Apr 2017, 21:56
  #63 (permalink)  

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Jay,

You're barking up entirely the wrong tree mate. Have you actually spoken to any police officers to corroborate the real value of Police Air Support ? I am ex-military and some of my former comrades went into the Police or decided to fly in support of them; without exception they thoroughly believe in the support the air wings provide.

NEO
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Old 2nd Apr 2017, 22:16
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nigerian Expat Outlaw View Post
Jay,

You're barking up entirely the wrong tree mate. Have you actually spoken to any police officers to corroborate the real value of Police Air Support ? I am ex-military and some of my former comrades went into the Police or decided to fly in support of them; without exception they thoroughly believe in the support the air wings provide.

NEO
I don't disagree with you but the huge sums of money spent on police air support can be better spent elsewhere via regional budgets.

The various regional ASU posts on twitter endorse my point.

99% of the time it is a waste of money.

Take a look at this from Benson.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NPAS_Bens...Ctwgr%5Eauthor
NPAS Benson‏ @NPAS_Benson
2/4 0300hrs Watford helping @HertsPolice & @roadpoliceBCH search for a couple of unrelated sus vehicles that made off from officers #p6572



4


19h
NPAS Benson‏ @NPAS_Benson
Dogs Owls and reality tv...It appears that police ASU is now a branch of social services..

Ep 1/3

Wednesday 12 April
9.00pm-10.00pm
BBC ONE

NEW
Every two minutes someone in Britain goes missing. Multiple cameras follow the hunt for missing people, from the police tasked with finding them to loved ones left at home.
In Darlington, the police are increasingly concerned for the safety of 12 year-old Joshua, who has stormed off after a row with his mum and seemingly disappeared. Prone to escaping into a superhero-inspired world of fantasy, Joshua’s learning difficulties and trusting nature make him especially vulnerable, and as the minutes become hours, then yet more hours, and as darkness falls, fears mount.

It’s down to Inspector Sarah Honeyman and her team to try and find Joshua before it’s too late: She says: “The biggest fear is that somebody snatches that child. As a police officer you are very well aware that there are more people out there that would do that than maybe the general public think.

"Your child is the most precious thing in your life. As a parent myself, you'd be looking for somebody to say everything is going to be okay - but you can't give that guarantee, and it would be wrong to."

Not far away, in a rural town in County Durham, the alarm is raised when 13 year-old Katie disappears from home leaving behind a troubling suicide note. All available officers are immediately scrambled to the search and a search dog and handler from the local Mountain Rescue team is drafted in - but budget cuts mean police helicopters are more thinly stretched than ever, and with the local one tied up on a firearms job, there's an agonising wait to try and get vital air support.

Last edited by Jay Sata; 2nd Apr 2017 at 22:29.
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Old 2nd Apr 2017, 22:39
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Jeeeeesus, are you that cold hearted! Seriously stop being THAT guy. If it's a bite you want, then have it, willingly. But don't spout that shit outside of your head. I will go to the ends of the earth to save that child, every day, all day. Whatever Nirvana you're thinking of that will solve all the worlds problems, bring it on, but until you put up some REAL solutions, let me/us get on with our jobs without listening to that utter toss. Please. No, pretty please.
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Old 2nd Apr 2017, 22:40
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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More timewasting of public funds here.

[quote]NPAS Barton‏ @NPAS_Barton
22:40 @gmpolice @GMPHyde Pursuit in Mottram area of Manchester. Car abandoned prior to our attendance. Search conducted


2h
NPAS Barton‏ @NPAS_Barton
@LancsPolice @BurnleyPolice Suspect search around the field from Crow Wood to Fence after vehicle abandoned.

Here are some typical posts from St Athan.

16 Mar
NPAS St Athan‏ @NPAS_StAthan
1200 Tracker code received in Bristol. Area narrowed down and stolen vehicle located by ground units. #TheTeamWorks @ASPolice


5

15


16 Mar
NPAS St Athan‏ @NPAS_StAthan
1130 Searching south Bristol for a vulnerable missing male. @ASPolice ground units located him in built up area. #team999
5h
NPAS Barton‏ @NPAS_Barton
18:00 Report of suspicious activity Winwick. Locate persons in fields and direct @cheshirepolice to loaction. Males on land with permission
NPAS Barton‏ @NPAS_Barton
1/4 0450 @GMPBoltonNorth assisting with search for suspects/vehicle following recent burglary. Area search no trace

All the above just petty crime .
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 02:42
  #67 (permalink)  
FD2
 
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Jay - how can you just quote a few incidences where nothing really resulted from a callout and translate that into a condemnation of the usefulness of service in overall? Perhaps a little research into instances where people's lives have been saved might redress the great bias in your bean counter arguments.

There are certainly instances where drones might be useful, like policing football matches and I think ratepayers might be glad about savings there. We would all like to see more bobbies on the beat but I think most of the informed opinion here believes that helicopters should still be part of the mix. This is especially important in these days of increased threats from IS, al Qaeda and home grown jihadists and now would be very foolish time to remove a vital part of the police capabilities. We should also think of the deterrent effect the chance of being caught has had on some of the would-be burglars, car thieves and potential murderers.

I know you'll simply come back and say it doesn't really seem to have made a real difference, and quote some more tweets, but wait and see how pleasant life really becomes when the scrotes realise that their naughty old activities have suddenly become a lot easier to carry out. Perhaps you live in a nice area that doesn't need much serious policing, with those annoying, noisy old helicopters buzzing around, but there are many in the country who are reassured that someone is looking out for them.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 05:37
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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I am not against the idea of police aviation but object to the way it is often deployed.

With 90% of UK burglaries never solved how the hell can 90 minutes of helicopter ops be justified to locate a stolen bike?

Mar 19
NPAS Redhill‏ @NPASRedhill
One of our tasks from a few nights ago. When we are overhead you may as well throw in the towel!
Clapham Com Police‏ @MPSClaphamCom

1hr 30mins pursuit of a stolen bike (aggravated robbery) through @LambethMPS @MPSCroydon @MPSWandsworth @MPSSutton & @SurreyPolice ������������
Or this

Wandsworth Police‏ @MPSWandsworth
ERT C strikes again! Reports of a robbery whereby victim's moped was stolen. Moped tracked & followed for nearly an hour by police (1/2)


Wandsworth Police‏ @MPSWandsworth

Resulting in 2 suspects arrested & moped back with it's owner. Great teamwork from @MPSRTPC @MPSSutton @MetTaskforce @NPASRedhill #Teamwork
Surely a stolen moped is an insurance company task? The cost of all the police time involved is completely disproportional to the value of the item and nature of the crime.

Last edited by Jay Sata; 3rd Apr 2017 at 06:40.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 07:09
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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I think you missed the part: "aggravated robbery". This is not just about a stolen bike. Its about a vicious bastard who has used violence to take that bike off his victim. If he gets away with it, what is he going to do tomorrow?
Maybe he will go to Jay Sata's house and do some trifling petty crime (which seems to be anything short of genocide)!
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 07:11
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Jay,

I was very supportive of you and your concerns in the T C-T thread, and generally accepted much if not most of what you said.

Your inability to show proper research and understanding of police aviation in general, and in the UK before and after NPAS introduction makes me seriously reconsider your contributions to the T C-T thread and certainly to this thread.

Since when does a crime become such as to meet your criteria of 'cost effective'?
When the misper is your relative?
When the aggravated burg is on your property and has threatened you with a firearm? (He/she may still have the weapon while being pursued and willing to use it on following unarmed constables. The helicopter is ideal for this sort of pursuit.)
When the moped causes a crash that seriously injures one of your close family?

As previously stated, you really need to show a background of proper research: quoting random 'Tweets' does not even come close.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 07:27
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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I think you are missing my point John.

The incidents I quoted above do not sit well alongside the various police reality programmes currently being screened on various UK tv channels.

Each episode involves car chases and petty crime.

I am questioning the disproportionate use of police budgets on unwarranted air support.

UK newspapers have carried this shocking story over the last few days.

Just 7% of stolen goods were recovered from the 2 billion of valuables taken from homes and businesses in two million break-ins between 2011 and 2016.

The figures were revealed in freedom of information data acquired by The Sun, which asked all 45 police forces in the UK for burglary statistics.

Thirty forces responded to the request, revealing that 206,009 of the 2,125,861 recorded burglaries were solved.

In London 928 million of goods was stolen - of which 35.4 million was recovered, equivalent to 3.7%.

The Metropolitan Police failed to solve 92% of cases over the same period.

Bedfordshire Police solved 6% of burglaries, and Warwickshire Police solved 7%.

Labour MP Yvette Cooper, chairwoman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, told The Sun: "We will be asking the police as part of our new inquiry into the future of policing why so many of these basic crimes are going unsolved, whether the figures are getting worse.

"They have to be able to do the basics - keeping the streets safe and catching criminals who invade people's homes.
The above story from the Express and Star newspaper.

In 2015, a Press Association analysis of Home Office data showed forces in England and Wales closed 80.2% of investigations into break-ins without identifying a suspect in 2014/15.

In the same year, Leicestershire Police revealed they had not fully investigated break-ins at odd-numbered houses as part of an experiment to look at ways of saving money.

The force said the three-month pilot was launched to see whether only responding to half of attempted burglaries had any impact on victim satisfaction rates.

For the pilot, attempted burglaries at even-numbered houses were fully investigated with forensic teams sent and fingerprints taken.

The National Police Chiefs' Council lead for acquisitive crime, Deputy Chief Constable Matt Jukes, said: "Police investigate all cases and also ensure that victims who may be particularly vulnerable, such as the isolated elderly, get the support they need from their police force.

"There have always been challenges for detection in burglary cases as, unlike many other crime reports where the suspect is at the scene or nearby, the suspect has often fled and criminals have become smarter about forensics.

"Police focus on targeting prolific offenders and organised crime networks as well as prevention measures by homeowners and businesses are working; burglary has fallen by a third since 2010 and is at its lowest level for thirty years.

"Simple measures can be the most effective in preventing burglary - such as ensuring all doors are locked and valuables are kept out of sight."


Read more at http://www.expressandstar.com/news/u...TkAktPzE1AQ.99

Last edited by Jay Sata; 3rd Apr 2017 at 07:48.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 07:51
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, not only have I missed your point but your further example has only served to confuse me further.

How on earth do you associate a report on burglary recoveries with Police aviation having a 'disproportionate use of police budgets on unwarranted air support'?

When you're stuck in a deep hole, the recommended technique is first, to stop digging.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 21:48
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Jobs reported on twitter

Jobs reported on Twitter are the jobs that are allowed to be reported on Twitter under the 'social media' guidelines.

The vast majority of 'tasty' jobs stay under-wraps for very obvious legal reasons.

Anyone who believes Twitter to be the gospel according to Saint air support must be as thick as pig shit!
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 22:09
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Have a like
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 06:35
  #75 (permalink)  
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Make that two!
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 07:27
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Jay Sata, I assume you have at least one close family member. Maybe a child even.

Try to imagine one day that loved one goes missing. maybe in a rural area on a cold night. The police then tell you the chances of finding them are much reduced as budget cuts have taken away the force Helicopter.

Also picture yourself in the Casualty department of your local hospital. You have just been told that you loved one has died after suffering catastrophic injuries in a hit and run accident. The police tell you they might have stood an even chance of catching the perpetrator had the force helicopter been still available.

The police put maximum effort in trying to intervene in petty crime because criminal behaviour means today's "Flasher" become tomorrow's Rapist and is next week carving out wombs and eating people's livers.

Police on the ground are important. But in this modern high speed high tech world providing that kind can of policing above other more sophisticated provisions is a nonsense. Modern criminals fear the Eye in the Sky. They know that once located, for the most part they can run but they cannot hide. Effective policing is about preventing crime. Deterrant. The Helicopter is a massive deterrent but unfortunately Jay it is unquantifiable and therefore neatly ignored by people like you and many bean counters. Until of course it is their loved one who is the victim..................beware what you wish for!
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 09:13
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Oh dear, another silly slanging match. I have no experience of the police and havent a clue which side is correct, but surely if a public service is spending this amount of money they should be properly audited and there should be an independent assessment of efficacy. How often does air support make the difference in achieving an arrest that otherwise would not have occurred? How often does air support find a missing person who would not have otherwise have been found in a reasonable time? What would be the saving if air support were only used for the really naughty people we apparently cant be told about? Does this data exist?

And how about a serious consideration of drones? No not toy quadricopters to take pictures of the royals but serious helicopter replacements like these which were so impressively presented recently at the RAeS?

https://medium.com/frontier-technolo...y-5a3c88abd96a
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 16:07
  #78 (permalink)  

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Maybe drones could be sent to medical incidents to send pictures to a control room. A controller could assess if it's worth sending a ground ambulance to attend.
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 16:55
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And how about a serious consideration of drones? No not toy quadricopters to take pictures of the royals but serious helicopter replacements like these which were so impressively presented recently at the RAeS?

https://medium.com/frontier-technolo...y-5a3c88abd96a
I've read the article from top to bottom, but it didn't answer a few questions I have;

How powerful is the Nightsun?
Where does the bronze commander/firearms team/dog handler sit?
Where does the stretcher go?
Can the ground operator broadcast through the Skyshout?
How does it carry out water rescues?
Can it keep up with a pursuit?
How does it extract very poorly missing persons to the nearest ambulance?

etc. etc. etc. etc.
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 17:08
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah, but it's cheap....
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