Trainee heli pilot - need advice
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Update: Went back yesterday for another lesson, determined to get it right. Flew straight and level, managed to relax alot more and was allowed to start our descent back to the airfield.
My hovering was atrocious, all over the place really, but was happy I made some progress flying. And no sickness. Going to stick at it, and thank you for all your encouraging comments it helped alot.
Any tips on hovering would be great, had the collective and pedals down but seem to have got worse keeping the cyclic steady. Seems almost impossible at the moment but I'll get there one day!
My hovering was atrocious, all over the place really, but was happy I made some progress flying. And no sickness. Going to stick at it, and thank you for all your encouraging comments it helped alot.
Any tips on hovering would be great, had the collective and pedals down but seem to have got worse keeping the cyclic steady. Seems almost impossible at the moment but I'll get there one day!
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When you are hovering, don't look at the ground in front of you. Pick some distant point on the horizon and try to keep yourself level in relation to it. Eventually it will just click and you will suddenly realise you are in a stable hover. You are now at the hardest stage of the whole course and the rest is much easier.
It's normal to stir the pot a bit when starting out. As you tense up the tendency is to start looking downwards and to grip too firmly on the controls.
Keep reminding yourself to look at that distance spot and to relax your hands. Like golfers say, pretend you're holding a budgie, too tight and it's head will explode
It will click, your mind just needs to adjust to the workload.
A good home exercise is trying to shave while wiping your ass
(let's see if he falls for that one)
Keep reminding yourself to look at that distance spot and to relax your hands. Like golfers say, pretend you're holding a budgie, too tight and it's head will explode
It will click, your mind just needs to adjust to the workload.
A good home exercise is trying to shave while wiping your ass
(let's see if he falls for that one)
I was taught about using an object the horizon to keep the correct attitude in the aircraft.
Didn't work for me, especially keeping direction in the hover. I found I was always going from left to right.
So I looked at a signpost that was around my 11 o'clock, with the cockpit centreline frame going through it.
It changed things so quickly for me that the instructor asked "What did you just do?".
I realised that trying to estimate a visual reference in the middle of the large pane in front of me gave it too much "wiggle room" and when it was obvious I was losing my orientation towards it, I already needed to add too much pedal, which affected collective too - giving me double the workload.
Using the vertical frame near the visual reference let me see immediately when I was drifting, requiring much smaller inputs.
As for cyclic, stiffness was my issue. Tensing up loads in the shoulder. Having the doors off helped, being broad shouldered. I found the door lock prevented me pulling my arm back enough to be comfortable.
Make sure your ass is in the seat. I mean it literally, make your bum relax into the seat and the rest will follow.
Also try not gripping the cyclic too hard. I found thumb and forefinger was enough to provide control, any more and I tended to stiffen the forearm and wrist. You can actually hold it like a pencil for much more fine control.
Remember, it's a massive gyroscope, it "wants" to stay level.
Didn't work for me, especially keeping direction in the hover. I found I was always going from left to right.
So I looked at a signpost that was around my 11 o'clock, with the cockpit centreline frame going through it.
It changed things so quickly for me that the instructor asked "What did you just do?".
I realised that trying to estimate a visual reference in the middle of the large pane in front of me gave it too much "wiggle room" and when it was obvious I was losing my orientation towards it, I already needed to add too much pedal, which affected collective too - giving me double the workload.
Using the vertical frame near the visual reference let me see immediately when I was drifting, requiring much smaller inputs.
As for cyclic, stiffness was my issue. Tensing up loads in the shoulder. Having the doors off helped, being broad shouldered. I found the door lock prevented me pulling my arm back enough to be comfortable.
Make sure your ass is in the seat. I mean it literally, make your bum relax into the seat and the rest will follow.
Also try not gripping the cyclic too hard. I found thumb and forefinger was enough to provide control, any more and I tended to stiffen the forearm and wrist. You can actually hold it like a pencil for much more fine control.
Remember, it's a massive gyroscope, it "wants" to stay level.
When it comes to learning to hover keep it simple.
1. Make it point - Use a reference in the middle distance and keep it between your feet (relatively), if it moves left push it back with your left foot, if it moves right push it back with your right foot.
2.Make it flat - With a relaxed but secure grip on the cyclic keep the horizon flat in front of you. Left to right for roll, forward and back for pitch. (which you know already) gently. Try to think as opposed to do. If you see the nose coming up (more blue than green) think forward etc. its usually enough to get the correction started.
3. Deal with height above the ground - Raise or lower collective smoothly to maintain or correct height.
The harder you try to hover the harder it is. Being relaxed is the key, as soon as you tense up you start to manipulate cyclic with your shoulder and everything becomes mechanical and jerky amplifying the secondary effects until it all falls to pieces in a sweaty frustrated mess. If you find you're getting back ache or a stiff neck, you're too tense, land, relax, deep breaths, wiggle your fingers and toes, go again. As has been said. Don't look down in front of you, look middle distance referencing close in for height.
Hovering tends to develop in stages. When you start you need a football field then only half. then a tennis court, then half. Once you're in half a tennis court you're pretty well there.
RELAX..................
Credit to Ascend Charlie ;-)
1. Make it point - Use a reference in the middle distance and keep it between your feet (relatively), if it moves left push it back with your left foot, if it moves right push it back with your right foot.
2.Make it flat - With a relaxed but secure grip on the cyclic keep the horizon flat in front of you. Left to right for roll, forward and back for pitch. (which you know already) gently. Try to think as opposed to do. If you see the nose coming up (more blue than green) think forward etc. its usually enough to get the correction started.
3. Deal with height above the ground - Raise or lower collective smoothly to maintain or correct height.
The harder you try to hover the harder it is. Being relaxed is the key, as soon as you tense up you start to manipulate cyclic with your shoulder and everything becomes mechanical and jerky amplifying the secondary effects until it all falls to pieces in a sweaty frustrated mess. If you find you're getting back ache or a stiff neck, you're too tense, land, relax, deep breaths, wiggle your fingers and toes, go again. As has been said. Don't look down in front of you, look middle distance referencing close in for height.
Hovering tends to develop in stages. When you start you need a football field then only half. then a tennis court, then half. Once you're in half a tennis court you're pretty well there.
RELAX..................
Credit to Ascend Charlie ;-)
Last edited by Evil Twin; 29th Sep 2016 at 11:10. Reason: extra added
All very good advice, but Evil Twin missed a very important point when referring to
Don't move from the shoulder.
Don't move from the elbow.
Rest your forearm on your thigh and all movements should emanate from the wrist, but essentially with fingers and thumb. You don't control your pen when writing with either your elbow or your shoulder, the same goes for your cyclic.
You are then minimising the number of pivot points in the chain and the subsequent gentle movements will bring a lot of finer control to your flying.
as soon as you tense up you start to manipulate cyclic with your shoulder and everything becomes mechanical and jerky amplifying the secondary effects until it all falls to pieces in a sweaty frustrated mess.
Don't move from the elbow.
Rest your forearm on your thigh and all movements should emanate from the wrist, but essentially with fingers and thumb. You don't control your pen when writing with either your elbow or your shoulder, the same goes for your cyclic.
You are then minimising the number of pivot points in the chain and the subsequent gentle movements will bring a lot of finer control to your flying.
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Thanks everyone - Ill keep at it for sure! Thanks for the tips I'll try using the cyclic like a pencil, being much lighter with it when hovering and see if that helps.
RELAX!!! Well, easier said then done.
One tip Shawn Coyle has in his book. Take a pencil and hold it with your middle finger on top of the other fingers and then grab the cyclic. As soon as you hold the cyclic to hard, it hurts and you relax a bit. Might work for you.
I remember I was completely stiff during my first hours of hover practice. Took me quite a while not being all over the place. Actually I was able to hover during my first hour and then it went downward. Couldn't hover for another 10 or even 15 hours? Something like that. After a while it got better but I wasn't able to stop forward movement. Always creeping slowly forward ... until my CFI yelled "there is a wall in front of you" (there wasn't). But that startled me and I stopped. Since then I can hover and it is like riding a bike, once you get it, you have it forever.
With more practice you will be able to relax more and more and your landings will be better and better. Don't be surprised, the closer to the ground, the more the ship will move around by itself. That is normal. It will come to you after a while. We all went through this.
It would not be rewarding, if it was too easy, but helicopters are designed to be handled by the average person.
One tip Shawn Coyle has in his book. Take a pencil and hold it with your middle finger on top of the other fingers and then grab the cyclic. As soon as you hold the cyclic to hard, it hurts and you relax a bit. Might work for you.
I remember I was completely stiff during my first hours of hover practice. Took me quite a while not being all over the place. Actually I was able to hover during my first hour and then it went downward. Couldn't hover for another 10 or even 15 hours? Something like that. After a while it got better but I wasn't able to stop forward movement. Always creeping slowly forward ... until my CFI yelled "there is a wall in front of you" (there wasn't). But that startled me and I stopped. Since then I can hover and it is like riding a bike, once you get it, you have it forever.
With more practice you will be able to relax more and more and your landings will be better and better. Don't be surprised, the closer to the ground, the more the ship will move around by itself. That is normal. It will come to you after a while. We all went through this.
It would not be rewarding, if it was too easy, but helicopters are designed to be handled by the average person.
Last edited by Rotorbee; 2nd Oct 2016 at 08:53. Reason: Horrible spelling made slightly better
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Lots of experience in those responses. Now hear from a low, low timer
When you are learning to hover, all that stuff your instructors are telling you is just so they've got something to say while they are continuously trying to save your lives and keep the ship in one piece. At best it might distract you enough to stop over-thinking and over-controlling. I'm pretty sure what they are really thinking while this is going on is "Any time now, sweetheart..."
On a more serious note, when I was learning to hover, I noticed two specific issues that hampered me more than anything else. The first was that while I understood that I needed to keep the ship level, I didn't have a good feel for what level looked like in every situation. Reference marks didn't help. The second, and even more difficult issue, was I could move the control in the correct direction and amount to maintain level, but didn't take the movement back out soon enough so that it stopped at level when it got there. I'm pretty sure that the timing of that can't be taught, it just has to eventually figure itself out in your own brain.
Lately I've come to realize, as my instructors have added such things as dollies and other interesting landings to my curriculum (working on my commercial), is that, while you never stop learning, you really, really never stop learning how to hover better.
Don't worry, it will click one day, soon. Then, a few 10's of hours later, you'll hear another, more subtle click, and it will settle in even tighter. And so on.
When you are learning to hover, all that stuff your instructors are telling you is just so they've got something to say while they are continuously trying to save your lives and keep the ship in one piece. At best it might distract you enough to stop over-thinking and over-controlling. I'm pretty sure what they are really thinking while this is going on is "Any time now, sweetheart..."
On a more serious note, when I was learning to hover, I noticed two specific issues that hampered me more than anything else. The first was that while I understood that I needed to keep the ship level, I didn't have a good feel for what level looked like in every situation. Reference marks didn't help. The second, and even more difficult issue, was I could move the control in the correct direction and amount to maintain level, but didn't take the movement back out soon enough so that it stopped at level when it got there. I'm pretty sure that the timing of that can't be taught, it just has to eventually figure itself out in your own brain.
Lately I've come to realize, as my instructors have added such things as dollies and other interesting landings to my curriculum (working on my commercial), is that, while you never stop learning, you really, really never stop learning how to hover better.
Don't worry, it will click one day, soon. Then, a few 10's of hours later, you'll hear another, more subtle click, and it will settle in even tighter. And so on.
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RELAX!!! Well, easier said then done.
One tip Shawn Coyle has in his book. Take a pencil and hold it with your middle finger on top of the other fingers and then grab the cyclic. As soon as you hold the cyclic to hard, it hurts and you relax a bit. Might work for you.
I remember I was completely stiff during my first hours of hover practice. Took me quite a while not being all over the place. Actually I was able to hover during my first hour and then it went downward. Could hover for another 10 or even 15 hours? Something like that. After a while it got better but I wasn't able to stop forward movement. Always creeping slowly forward ... until my CFI yelled "there is a wall in front of you" (there wasn't). But that startled me and I stopped. Since then I can hover and it is like riding a bike, once you get it, you have it forever.
With more practice you will be able to relax more and more and your landings will be better and better. Don't be surprised, the closer to the ground, the more the ship will move around by itself. That is normal. It will come to you after a while. We all went through this.
It would not be rewarding, if it was too easy, but helicopters are designed to be handled be the average person.
One tip Shawn Coyle has in his book. Take a pencil and hold it with your middle finger on top of the other fingers and then grab the cyclic. As soon as you hold the cyclic to hard, it hurts and you relax a bit. Might work for you.
I remember I was completely stiff during my first hours of hover practice. Took me quite a while not being all over the place. Actually I was able to hover during my first hour and then it went downward. Could hover for another 10 or even 15 hours? Something like that. After a while it got better but I wasn't able to stop forward movement. Always creeping slowly forward ... until my CFI yelled "there is a wall in front of you" (there wasn't). But that startled me and I stopped. Since then I can hover and it is like riding a bike, once you get it, you have it forever.
With more practice you will be able to relax more and more and your landings will be better and better. Don't be surprised, the closer to the ground, the more the ship will move around by itself. That is normal. It will come to you after a while. We all went through this.
It would not be rewarding, if it was too easy, but helicopters are designed to be handled be the average person.
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There are those pilots who stir the cyclic in tiny circles to hold a hover, (which is usually because they can't hold a hover without moving the cyclic,) and there are those pilots who can hold a hover without moving the cyclic.
If you can find a suitable place on your leg to comfortably rest your right wrist on, then you'll have much less movement in your right hand. Move your hand, move your fingers, the will helicopter move.
Find the sweet spot, relax, and hold everything there.
The easiest way to a smooth hover is to quit moving the flippin' cyclic!
If you can find a suitable place on your leg to comfortably rest your right wrist on, then you'll have much less movement in your right hand. Move your hand, move your fingers, the will helicopter move.
Find the sweet spot, relax, and hold everything there.
The easiest way to a smooth hover is to quit moving the flippin' cyclic!
Last edited by AK355; 5th Oct 2016 at 16:07.
Chris.
In my first attempt at hovering a Jet Ranger, my instructor gave it to me over a square painted over the pavement (about 20' on a side). All I had to do was try to stay within that square. I spent the rest of that session everywhere but that square. Frustrating. The next flight, after reviewing all of the stuff and trying to remember the in out down and speed of visual scan (and lightening up a bit on my grip on the controls)(The other thing he had me doing was "each time you make a control input, make a slight counter correction the other way" which made me my own SAS servo. ) That got me to stop over controlling. I could stay in the square and then fly the square a bit at a time stopping at each corner to turn ... you'll get there.
Welcome to the club, by the way, of those who have hovered. It's a good thing.
In my first attempt at hovering a Jet Ranger, my instructor gave it to me over a square painted over the pavement (about 20' on a side). All I had to do was try to stay within that square. I spent the rest of that session everywhere but that square. Frustrating. The next flight, after reviewing all of the stuff and trying to remember the in out down and speed of visual scan (and lightening up a bit on my grip on the controls)(The other thing he had me doing was "each time you make a control input, make a slight counter correction the other way" which made me my own SAS servo.
) That got me to stop over controlling. I could stay in the square and then fly the square a bit at a time stopping at each corner to turn ... you'll get there. Welcome to the club, by the way, of those who have hovered. It's a good thing.
I know this feeling remembering my traumatic first bicycle rides 55 years ago and I'm proud for not having given up. But helicopters always have been fun from the beginning until now.
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Ten days ago I was trying to hover, and barely managing to keep it inside the airfield. Today, ten hours' later, I was disappointed that I landed two feet from the centre of the (6' square) pad. I've got lots of fixed wing flying, but helos are by far the most challenging and fun.
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Low timer here again: did a bajillion dolly landings today (guys, please don't let this devolve into "dollies are a deathtrap...") They went from 
to in a about an hour and a half. The best part was then hover taxiing back to the hangar where pretty much the entire school was sitting outside shooting the sh*t and getting ready to hold up the score cards on that set down. Let's just say that an hour on the dolly really makes putting it down in front of the hangar look like a million bucks. Aim small, miss small! It's all relative.
I guess what I'm trying to say, chrispike, is it's all relative. 10 hours from now you will laugh at what you were like 10 hours ago. And then again 10 hours after that. And so on. Hang in there, you'll get it!
to in a about an hour and a half. The best part was then hover taxiing back to the hangar where pretty much the entire school was sitting outside shooting the sh*t and getting ready to hold up the score cards on that set down. Let's just say that an hour on the dolly really makes putting it down in front of the hangar look like a million bucks. Aim small, miss small! It's all relative.I guess what I'm trying to say, chrispike, is it's all relative. 10 hours from now you will laugh at what you were like 10 hours ago. And then again 10 hours after that. And so on. Hang in there, you'll get it!
