Pilot operated hoist...?
Thread Starter
Pilot operated hoist...?
Does anyone know of a system where the pilot operates the hoist down & up while the recues &/ patient are attached below?
Or do you have to have a hoist operator sitting in the back operating the winch?
Or do you have to have a hoist operator sitting in the back operating the winch?
Many, but not all, hoist installations have pilot controls and all have a pilot (and winch operator) cable cut (or should if they don't). That being said, I do not know of any hoist operation that is routinely done by a pilot. There should always a crew chief or assigned rescuer in the back running the hoist. This is for some very obvious reasons that probably do not need to be detailed. I would want the pilot to pilot and the winchman to have eyes on the hook and people on it. No doubt there are some long line pilots who may think they can do both but between those tasks and radios, I would be very uncomfortable as a rescuer on the hook. Frequently the winch operator also is the only thing preventing the cable from rubbing on cable guards or the aircraft structure if things start to rock and roll. They earn their keep with cables that are easily damaged costing about $2500.00 I suppose if the hoist operator fell out (Darwinian implications here....) it might be nice for the pilot to be able to reel in the cable but in that event, if there is a patient or someone on the hook, it might be smarter to just turn it into a short haul and fly them to somewhere they can get in the helicopter on the ground. Why do you ask?
Thread Starter
Having seen the controls in various cockpits I was just wandering about it as an option. We currently do HEC with the rescuer, Dr &/ patient on various lengths of sling.
Find an LZ near by, empty everything out, hook up and fly the Dr & rescuer to the patient - return to LZ or fly around a bit and wait for the call to be fetched. All done with mirrors and radio comms between pilot and rescuer (him being my eyes and radalt)
Never thought about cable/heli contact damage.
Thanks...
Find an LZ near by, empty everything out, hook up and fly the Dr & rescuer to the patient - return to LZ or fly around a bit and wait for the call to be fetched. All done with mirrors and radio comms between pilot and rescuer (him being my eyes and radalt)
Never thought about cable/heli contact damage.
Thanks...
The Bristol Sycamore; wooden blades, a 9 cylinder radial engine, had so little hover power over the sea in the Mediterranean that the pilot operated the hoist. He would winch the winchman down to the survivor in the dinghy and if the aircraft had insufficient power reserve to winch them both up then the survivor would come up by himself and find his own way into the cabin. They would then fly back to base with the winchman occupying the dinghy until the pilot returned with said Sycamore and picked him up.
It was standard training in the Huey for the pilot to learn to hover and operate the winch, on the crewman's instructions. If a 60-hr student could do it, it ain't all that hard to physically do. But doing it without a crewman is perhaps not very wise.
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What I did when I was use to EMS mountain operations or marittime SAR operations was to have the winch operator having full authority of the winch operations according to OMA and OMG, nevertheless in case of CUT CUT CUT it was up to Commander decision to cut the cable, the winch operator could manually cut it with the provided axe or cutter if winch pyrotechnic cutter system didn't work.
Only in case of winch operator pendant control failure I was to get control of the winch by the collective head controls and winch on board the winchman along with the rescued people.
Normally I did the recurrent training to de-rust out the left hand thumb, but never had to operate the winch in real operations in 15 years of that flying.
Only in case of winch operator pendant control failure I was to get control of the winch by the collective head controls and winch on board the winchman along with the rescued people.
Normally I did the recurrent training to de-rust out the left hand thumb, but never had to operate the winch in real operations in 15 years of that flying.
Nigerian In Law
Westland Scout AH1 (Queen of the Skies for those of us who flew it) had a winch fit that gave both pilot and rear crew full authority. In Brunei we used to train for solo winch ops on it but I don't recall seeing or hearing of any pilot actually use it.
Main purpose was to replen selections and JS/JWI courses and bring up casualties that couldn't get to or be take to landing sites in the jungle.
NEO
Main purpose was to replen selections and JS/JWI courses and bring up casualties that couldn't get to or be take to landing sites in the jungle.
NEO
In training exercises, we would have the pilot take over and run the hoist in a simulated cable runaway where the hoist operator's control malfunctioned, but there was always a hoist operator calling for hoist up/down as required. Can't really see what's going on at the end of the cable from the pilot's seat. In a pinch it could obviously be done but far from ideal.
We have a hoist pendant with variable speed control for the winch operator and a single speed Up-Down switch situated on the pilot console (Super Puma L2). The pilot switch is useful when the winch operator has their hands full, e.g. assisting the winchman to bring the casualty on board.
A pilot switch is also useful when the winchman is on the ground/deck and can control the hook using a hi-line. This method can be used when the winch operator is securing casualties in the cabin and needs to expedite the return of the hook to the winchman. The aircraft is offset from the overhead of the situation so the pilot can have visual reference on the winchman and can effectively act as the winch operator for that stage of the rescue.
A pilot switch is also useful when the winchman is on the ground/deck and can control the hook using a hi-line. This method can be used when the winch operator is securing casualties in the cabin and needs to expedite the return of the hook to the winchman. The aircraft is offset from the overhead of the situation so the pilot can have visual reference on the winchman and can effectively act as the winch operator for that stage of the rescue.
NEO, was the Scout winch the same as the Wasp? If I remember correctly, the Wasp used bleed air off the might Nimbus to run the winch!
But yes, having pilot controls for the winch/hoist is almost standard. They will also have a power switch for the hoist and a cable cutter normally.
But yes, having pilot controls for the winch/hoist is almost standard. They will also have a power switch for the hoist and a cable cutter normally.
We used the pilot winch switch regularly for cabin entry to allow the winch op to assist the winchman getting a casualty who was in either a stretcher or a double strop into the cabin.
Fareastdriver - quite so.
In Aden, when we started, we also used an extended intercom cable drum which paid out with the winch and (theoretically) allowed us to 'patter' the pilot into position. The jack plug was not the most reliable connection and using it for wet winching could produce the most ear-splitting noises!! This was in the transition stage to 3 crew ops so was quickly phased out. Another dodge employed for the 2 man ops was a pair of ... Hillman Husky hub caps highly polished and positioned to give the pilot a view beneath the winch head - interesting days!!
In Aden, when we started, we also used an extended intercom cable drum which paid out with the winch and (theoretically) allowed us to 'patter' the pilot into position. The jack plug was not the most reliable connection and using it for wet winching could produce the most ear-splitting noises!! This was in the transition stage to 3 crew ops so was quickly phased out. Another dodge employed for the 2 man ops was a pair of ... Hillman Husky hub caps highly polished and positioned to give the pilot a view beneath the winch head - interesting days!!
