Aviation Books.....Must Read Tomes!
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Nick,
I enjoyed your recount of the what we had to fly and the overloaded, under-powered aircraft. I flew with the 101st, 4/77 ARA. And, I'll say it for you; Yes, I have a Purple Heart because of the skin rash from my oxygen mask. We operated Charlie Models (UH-1C), heavy hog (M-3 kit-48 rockets) and an M-5 Chunker (40mm) on the nose. Engine was the T53-L11. About two months before Hamburger Hill we were issued the AH-1G. 76 rockets and two 40mm. The only differance was we still needed around 800 to 1000 feet to bounce into translational lift, but could cruise at 110knots instead of 80 knots.
Both aircraft made a pilot develop good control touch, or die.
Ah, those were the days..Thank God they're gone.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the novel CW2! Written by Layne Heath, who did two tours, the first with the 158th,located down the runway from us at Camp Evans (located just north of Hue). I found it more accurate than Chickenhawk. Hawk was more a list of events that would usually not happen to one small unit.
It's been four years snce my last VHPA. Time to go back and collect more stories.
Griffin33F
I enjoyed your recount of the what we had to fly and the overloaded, under-powered aircraft. I flew with the 101st, 4/77 ARA. And, I'll say it for you; Yes, I have a Purple Heart because of the skin rash from my oxygen mask. We operated Charlie Models (UH-1C), heavy hog (M-3 kit-48 rockets) and an M-5 Chunker (40mm) on the nose. Engine was the T53-L11. About two months before Hamburger Hill we were issued the AH-1G. 76 rockets and two 40mm. The only differance was we still needed around 800 to 1000 feet to bounce into translational lift, but could cruise at 110knots instead of 80 knots.
Both aircraft made a pilot develop good control touch, or die.
Ah, those were the days..Thank God they're gone.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the novel CW2! Written by Layne Heath, who did two tours, the first with the 158th,located down the runway from us at Camp Evans (located just north of Hue). I found it more accurate than Chickenhawk. Hawk was more a list of events that would usually not happen to one small unit.
It's been four years snce my last VHPA. Time to go back and collect more stories.
Griffin33F
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I was with Hugh Mills in RVN in 1969 and I can attest that some of what was written in "Low Level Hell" actually happened to other guys. I suspect that the ghost writer put the stuff in to make the book more interesting. The unit was Troop D(AIR), 1/4 Cav and was the only organic Air Cav Troop in the 1st Infantry Division. When the 1st Infantry Division stood down in April 1970, the Troop D outfit was renamed Troop C , 16th Cav and we were sent to Soc Trang and later Can Tho in the Mekong Delta in IV Corp. We retained the same people (almost), aircraft, call signs, and even radio frequencies. I think that the only people that went home stateside (Ft. Riley, Kansas) were the Commanding General and maybe the Sergent Major.
I was later assigned to the Cobra school at Hunter AAF after my tour and Hugh came through the Cobra qualification course enroute to RVN again, and Back to Troop C. I last saw him at the VHCMA convention in San Antonio in 2005. I think he is working on another book.
As for Cambodia, Troop C was involved for about three weeks in May 1970, actually about 2 weeks after the first incursions at the "Parrots Beak" in III Corp.
My impression of the unit compared to others is that we flew a lot more than any of them. I left with 1277 hours of combat assault and we had a couple of pilots that had over 1400 hours, all in one year. It was mostly "pink" teams and a lot of guys got shot up. It was not a pretty time and few of us stayed in the flying game. There is a Dark Horse web site that you can visit which was put together by one of our Huey crew chiefs. It is darkhorsevietnam.com.
I still fly and am fortunate to earn part of my living flying a UH-1H on contract for the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics looking for idiots that grow marijuana outside. We do this in the Eastern 1/2 of the state. I like doing it because these cops are the good guys.
I was later assigned to the Cobra school at Hunter AAF after my tour and Hugh came through the Cobra qualification course enroute to RVN again, and Back to Troop C. I last saw him at the VHCMA convention in San Antonio in 2005. I think he is working on another book.
As for Cambodia, Troop C was involved for about three weeks in May 1970, actually about 2 weeks after the first incursions at the "Parrots Beak" in III Corp.
My impression of the unit compared to others is that we flew a lot more than any of them. I left with 1277 hours of combat assault and we had a couple of pilots that had over 1400 hours, all in one year. It was mostly "pink" teams and a lot of guys got shot up. It was not a pretty time and few of us stayed in the flying game. There is a Dark Horse web site that you can visit which was put together by one of our Huey crew chiefs. It is darkhorsevietnam.com.
I still fly and am fortunate to earn part of my living flying a UH-1H on contract for the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics looking for idiots that grow marijuana outside. We do this in the Eastern 1/2 of the state. I like doing it because these cops are the good guys.
I remember going for a front seat ride in a Cobra out of Illesheim (spelling?) near Frankfurt
in 1974/5. Making small talk to the pilot I asked about the auto capability.
Okay he said, we've just been shot down and into the auto we went.
At that point the difference between british and american pilot became apparent.
British pilots had practice engine failures american pilots got shot down.
Many thanks to that american pilot who made my year and gave me a tiny insight into the Vietnam experience.
in 1974/5. Making small talk to the pilot I asked about the auto capability.
Okay he said, we've just been shot down and into the auto we went.
At that point the difference between british and american pilot became apparent.
British pilots had practice engine failures american pilots got shot down.
Many thanks to that american pilot who made my year and gave me a tiny insight into the Vietnam experience.
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Chickenhawk
I hadn't previously heard the comments about the various anecdotes in Chickenhawk being a collection of other people's rather than exclusively Mason's own experiences. It does seem possible that incidents which happened to others might have been added to fill out the story, as it were. Still, it was a great read - 17 years ago, both times!! The first was when I was interested in helicopters and felt I understood how they worked. The second, and much more enjoyable read, was as I began and worked through my flight training.
Many years later, in the comfortable confines of a corporate IR twin, the simple hover practice still stands out.
Paraphrasing.......
"You're an ace, son!"
"But I was all over the field, sir!"
"Never mind, son, we'll just practice in smaller fields!"
I had a similar, smilingly cynical ex-military instructor for my PPL training and one day during hover practice, the instruction was to establish a stable hover pointed at a tall chimney standing high over a nearby town. 4 sweaty, white-knuckled, ninety-degree turns later, the chimney appeared again on the nose.
"Well now," he said. "There's a stroke of luck!"
Or the Vietnam vet who did my conversion to the 206 as a 60-hour PPL in California. Barely an hour into the training, he chopped the throttle coming over a ridge and watched as I aimed it into a large open field. And kept on watching while I continued towards the field without seeing the powerlines.
Back at the airfield, he said, "Son, you doing a outstanding job. You can get the bird started up, get it in the pattern and come on back and put it on the ground. But if the engine quits, you gonna be on the six-o'clock news with film at eleven!"
Not forgetting the hardship endured by those who served in Vietnam and, indeed, in all other theatres, Chickenhawk is still a top read.
I must look up the others mentioned in the thread.
Many years later, in the comfortable confines of a corporate IR twin, the simple hover practice still stands out.
Paraphrasing.......
"You're an ace, son!"
"But I was all over the field, sir!"
"Never mind, son, we'll just practice in smaller fields!"
I had a similar, smilingly cynical ex-military instructor for my PPL training and one day during hover practice, the instruction was to establish a stable hover pointed at a tall chimney standing high over a nearby town. 4 sweaty, white-knuckled, ninety-degree turns later, the chimney appeared again on the nose.
"Well now," he said. "There's a stroke of luck!"
Or the Vietnam vet who did my conversion to the 206 as a 60-hour PPL in California. Barely an hour into the training, he chopped the throttle coming over a ridge and watched as I aimed it into a large open field. And kept on watching while I continued towards the field without seeing the powerlines.
Back at the airfield, he said, "Son, you doing a outstanding job. You can get the bird started up, get it in the pattern and come on back and put it on the ground. But if the engine quits, you gonna be on the six-o'clock news with film at eleven!"
Not forgetting the hardship endured by those who served in Vietnam and, indeed, in all other theatres, Chickenhawk is still a top read.
I must look up the others mentioned in the thread.
Chief Bottle Washer
Darkhorse30,
Welcome to Rotorheads, and for your insight into your time in RVN. Can we look forward to some more posts from from you on your work in Oklahoma?
Senior Pilot
Welcome to Rotorheads, and for your insight into your time in RVN. Can we look forward to some more posts from from you on your work in Oklahoma?
Senior Pilot
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I have spent part of the last four summers working for OBNDDC (Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control) using the UH-1H as a platform for insertions, rapeling, stabo, as well as spot spraying marijuana plants. I always fly with a load of Narc agents and these guys are one tough bunch. For spraying we use a 30 gallon tank with pump and a 100 ft. hose with a single solenoid controlled nozzle. I will hover over the plant(s) and an a couple of agents will lower the hose/nozzle, position the Huey, and spray. The herbicide is Round Up mixed with red dye. This last summer we eradicated about 2500 plants, which is a lot less than years past. Sometimes we land and the Narcs cut the plants down or use backpack sprayers and haul it out. We have killed/cut some plants that are 14 ft tall.
As a side issue I usually spend several flight hours training Narc. agents from all over the US in rapel and stabo operations, usually in the late spring. The OBNDDC runs an Air Assault school in Oklahoma every year.
Not much else to add except that the Company I run does Engineering work on various helicopters for STC's. We have in the past developed the kits and obtained FAA Certification on Hueys with PT6C-67D engine, LHTEC T800 engine, Tail Rotor Enhancement Kits, etc.
As a side issue I usually spend several flight hours training Narc. agents from all over the US in rapel and stabo operations, usually in the late spring. The OBNDDC runs an Air Assault school in Oklahoma every year.
Not much else to add except that the Company I run does Engineering work on various helicopters for STC's. We have in the past developed the kits and obtained FAA Certification on Hueys with PT6C-67D engine, LHTEC T800 engine, Tail Rotor Enhancement Kits, etc.
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I just read Chickehawk over the weekend. The edition I read had an extra section devoted to Mason explaining some of those inconsistancies and also revealing the real names of many of the personalities in the book. I don't know enough about the background of the book to make a catagorical judgement, but he seemed believable enough. In any case, thank you all for the recommendation.
I've also read Low Level Hell, which I recommend highly.
I've also read Low Level Hell, which I recommend highly.
Chickenhawk and other good 'helicopters in action' books
my all time favourite bought for my xmas by one of my best mates, is Snake Pilot by Randy Zahn. Randy was at tiem fo wirting cheif pilot for ERA Helicopters in Alaska probably pre buyout/merger with Texair.
Another classic is Dustoff by the now late Michael Novostiel, the decorated WW2 bomber pilot and post war pilot and Air Force Reserve Lt Col who volunteered for Warrant Officer Candidate School /Army Flight School and went to Vietnam.
Another classic is Dustoff by the now late Michael Novostiel, the decorated WW2 bomber pilot and post war pilot and Air Force Reserve Lt Col who volunteered for Warrant Officer Candidate School /Army Flight School and went to Vietnam.
I worked on the movie "Flags of our fathers" and " Letters from Iwo Jima" (wich I think is better of the two) when it was shot here in Iceland, the innovation scene and the flag raise scene as helicopter ground crew supervisor then and did some flying too, great time. It was really privledge to work with Clint and his crew.
It got me to read the book and I'm glad I did before I saw the film, even tought both movies are great the book is far better like they usually are....
But Chickenhawk is the best of all. I say and have said before they should make a movie of it.
It got me to read the book and I'm glad I did before I saw the film, even tought both movies are great the book is far better like they usually are....
But Chickenhawk is the best of all. I say and have said before they should make a movie of it.
In "Dustoff" (Michael Novosel) the part where he describes flying over the island from which he flew B29s in WW2 on his way to Vietnam is special.
Looking over my shoulder at the book case
Chickenhawk (hardback first edition none of your paperback rubbish!!!!)
Snake Pilot
Dustoff
Year of the Horse
The comments on the accuracy of Chickenhawk are reminiscent of the arguments surrounding "The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer.
This book describes the activities of a Frenchman from Alsace conscripted into the German army in WW2. His story of life on the Russian front is remarkable and difficult to put down.
Anyone who was glued to Chickenhawk should read this one.
Looking over my shoulder at the book case
Chickenhawk (hardback first edition none of your paperback rubbish!!!!)
Snake Pilot
Dustoff
Year of the Horse
The comments on the accuracy of Chickenhawk are reminiscent of the arguments surrounding "The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer.
This book describes the activities of a Frenchman from Alsace conscripted into the German army in WW2. His story of life on the Russian front is remarkable and difficult to put down.
Anyone who was glued to Chickenhawk should read this one.
Chickenhawk and other good 'helicopters in action' books
Also don't forget
1.
1 Chinook: Special Forces Flight inWar and Peace by Dave McMullon
2 From Hot Air to Hellfire: History of Army Aviation by James W Bralin
3 US Navy Seawolves The Elite HAL-3 Squadron in Vietnam by Daniel E Kelly
1.
1 Chinook: Special Forces Flight inWar and Peace by Dave McMullon
2 From Hot Air to Hellfire: History of Army Aviation by James W Bralin
3 US Navy Seawolves The Elite HAL-3 Squadron in Vietnam by Daniel E Kelly
Of the books I've read, "Low Level Hell" (Hugh Mills) I cite as by far and away the best read (even more so than Chickenhawk).
"In The Company Of Heroes" could have been a much better book if the writing standard had been a bit higher, I felt the whole read was a bit dumbed down though. Durants second book, "Night Stalkers" is quite an interesting read (and has a higher writing standard - i attribute that to the presence of a c-writer) though it retells others stories (specifically 160th SOAR pilots) rather than his own.
"In The Company Of Heroes" could have been a much better book if the writing standard had been a bit higher, I felt the whole read was a bit dumbed down though. Durants second book, "Night Stalkers" is quite an interesting read (and has a higher writing standard - i attribute that to the presence of a c-writer) though it retells others stories (specifically 160th SOAR pilots) rather than his own.
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Maverick
Having read a few (Chickenhawk, Low Level Hell, Snake Pilot etc) I'd recommend 'Maverick' by Dennis Marvicsin and Jerold Greenfield as the best. Absolutely brilliant if you really want to get inside the head of someone going through Vietnam as a helo pilot. Marvicsin did 2 tours (Huey's & Cobras) and ended up as a POW, quite a story and very engagingly written.
Other than that, Low Level Hell is well up there.
Other than that, Low Level Hell is well up there.
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Being the one who started this thread I feel that I owe all you guys who have replied with true knowledge and suggestions of other " Good reads" a big thank you for your input.
Reading "Chickenhawk" has been a riviting and might I say an awsome book in the way the detail of flying the UH-1 is written, after the truly great input from Sasless and Nick Lappos, what I was reading seemed all the more real. Very few of us here on PPrune have ever been in the position where nasty people are throwing lead your way so we have never needed to spool up and get up in as many seconds as was suggested in the book but with the help from two of the real gentlemen from the Pprune bunch it seems this was every day life for the guys out in the big green, I am now starting to look for the other titles suggested by many of you and finish by saying... .... Thankyou all.
My regards to you all
Peter Russell-Blackburn
Vfrpilotpb
Reading "Chickenhawk" has been a riviting and might I say an awsome book in the way the detail of flying the UH-1 is written, after the truly great input from Sasless and Nick Lappos, what I was reading seemed all the more real. Very few of us here on PPrune have ever been in the position where nasty people are throwing lead your way so we have never needed to spool up and get up in as many seconds as was suggested in the book but with the help from two of the real gentlemen from the Pprune bunch it seems this was every day life for the guys out in the big green, I am now starting to look for the other titles suggested by many of you and finish by saying... .... Thankyou all.
My regards to you all
Peter Russell-Blackburn
Vfrpilotpb
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Yes, some good books here. I've had plenty of time to read since my back surgery and will probably read a couple more before they give me back my medical certificate. (3 months at least - bugger). Why the new user name Peter? just curious.
Phil
Phil
Last edited by Gaseous; 16th Oct 2007 at 22:35.
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Oh Dear
Ivan....
Oh Dear that was me in my PPL. I apologise on behalf of all of us past students..!!!
And I still curve to the right exiting confines...
(while keeping a sharp eye out for Charlie of course)
Oh Dear that was me in my PPL. I apologise on behalf of all of us past students..!!!
And I still curve to the right exiting confines...
(while keeping a sharp eye out for Charlie of course)
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Gaseous,
Nice to hear from you again, reason for new handle was my office at home was slightly altered by some vagrant with a box of matches, from the wreckage I just managed to salvage the hard drive of my system but sadly lost a shed load of info and much valued bits and pieces from my past life, by the time I had worked my way back to Pprune there system wouldnt recognise my old handle from a new E mail address, so I just had to start again, so now I am registered here at my place of work as Vfrpilotpb/2 and from home as Peter-RB, it seems to work and I am happy that I am able to converse again with many old friends.
Next time you want to go to Whitwell I'll buy you lunch!
Peter R-B/ Vfrpilotpb
Nice to hear from you again, reason for new handle was my office at home was slightly altered by some vagrant with a box of matches, from the wreckage I just managed to salvage the hard drive of my system but sadly lost a shed load of info and much valued bits and pieces from my past life, by the time I had worked my way back to Pprune there system wouldnt recognise my old handle from a new E mail address, so I just had to start again, so now I am registered here at my place of work as Vfrpilotpb/2 and from home as Peter-RB, it seems to work and I am happy that I am able to converse again with many old friends.
Next time you want to go to Whitwell I'll buy you lunch!
Peter R-B/ Vfrpilotpb
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Phil
Possibly not arson , but some poor person who was much maligned at school and was not spoken to properly by his teachers, so cos of that he took to drinking strong larger and smoking wacky baccy by the time he was 14yrs, then by 17yrs he took to sleeping under the stars cos no one understood him and purely cos he wanted to keep warm he decided to have a little camp fire, but cos he didnt want to be seen he lit said camp fire behind a nice wooden building attached to a big garage in a wood, not any wood , but my wood against my nice wooden office attached to my nice garage, however his daddy said he really was a good boy at heart, just misunderstood, so cos he was misunderstood and needed to keep warm part of my history and many precious things were vapourised.
Sad really init, we all work hard try to play by the rules, and because some snotty manic depressive brat cant see right from wrong, many other poeple have to pick up the charred bits afterwards.
Is it me, am I cynical or am I to old to feel empathy with the majority of the youth of today.
Peter R-B
ES , why no licence?
Possibly not arson , but some poor person who was much maligned at school and was not spoken to properly by his teachers, so cos of that he took to drinking strong larger and smoking wacky baccy by the time he was 14yrs, then by 17yrs he took to sleeping under the stars cos no one understood him and purely cos he wanted to keep warm he decided to have a little camp fire, but cos he didnt want to be seen he lit said camp fire behind a nice wooden building attached to a big garage in a wood, not any wood , but my wood against my nice wooden office attached to my nice garage, however his daddy said he really was a good boy at heart, just misunderstood, so cos he was misunderstood and needed to keep warm part of my history and many precious things were vapourised.
Sad really init, we all work hard try to play by the rules, and because some snotty manic depressive brat cant see right from wrong, many other poeple have to pick up the charred bits afterwards.
Is it me, am I cynical or am I to old to feel empathy with the majority of the youth of today.
Peter R-B
ES , why no licence?