Aviation Books.....Must Read Tomes!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ----------
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have read his first book twice and it still is a great book.
what put it into context for me was watching the the film we where soldiers after reading the book.
the film is not specific to helicopter pilots but it puts everything that Bob Mason says in his book into true context well worth watching and well worth reading his book.
Would be interesting to read this one.
Hueywsh any chance you can put me on the list for a read.
Sincerely
Bravo 99 (AJB)
what put it into context for me was watching the the film we where soldiers after reading the book.
the film is not specific to helicopter pilots but it puts everything that Bob Mason says in his book into true context well worth watching and well worth reading his book.
Would be interesting to read this one.
Hueywsh any chance you can put me on the list for a read.
Sincerely
Bravo 99 (AJB)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember reading Chickenhawk many years ago. (Mid 80s).
At the time I was flying around with a guy who had been there too, with him, and knew him. We were in an equally difficult environment.
To quote him he said "Chicken Hawk"-- "Chicken ****".
Probably envious that he had not written it. I don't know.
Definitely a good read.
At the time I was flying around with a guy who had been there too, with him, and knew him. We were in an equally difficult environment.
To quote him he said "Chicken Hawk"-- "Chicken ****".
Probably envious that he had not written it. I don't know.
Definitely a good read.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Canberra
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bravo,
The book is on its way to western Australia first of all and then who knows after that. I would be happy to send it to you when it gets back. There is an extract, 1 or 2 chapters of it on the robertmason website. I think it is www.robertcmason.com.
Hope this is of some use.
Cheers
Hueywsh
The book is on its way to western Australia first of all and then who knows after that. I would be happy to send it to you when it gets back. There is an extract, 1 or 2 chapters of it on the robertmason website. I think it is www.robertcmason.com.
Hope this is of some use.
Cheers
Hueywsh
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Either side of the Tasman
Age: 47
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are keen for another absolutly excellent read then look no further than "Low Level Hell" its about the 'Loaches' in nam doing servailence.I could almost go to the point of saying it is as good as Chickenhawk, it puts a different spin on the aerial view of vietnam, everyone relates Hueys to nam which is fare enough but the little birds paid an equally important roll in the whole ordeal.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Here,there &everywhere
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also spoke to a guy that was in Nam when Mr Masonwas there.
He said he was there the day Robert Mason gave his wings in and did not want to fly anymore.
He also said that most of the "interesting" parts in the book happened to other people and not Mr Mason as he was there for such a short while.
I do like the book and am looking forward to read the second one.
He said he was there the day Robert Mason gave his wings in and did not want to fly anymore.
He also said that most of the "interesting" parts in the book happened to other people and not Mr Mason as he was there for such a short while.
I do like the book and am looking forward to read the second one.
Just did a three ship formation flight today...practice for the upcoming Air Show at Olympia, Washington. We had a UH-1H (now identified as GrandPa's bird), a UH-1K, and a very pretty AH-1P. Several guests from the UK arrive tomorrow to get stuck into flying in our warbirds.....helicopters and airplanes. Boss Fellah owns a few very nice airplanes. After the formation practice, I got the thrill of riding in the Strikemaster....then the other wingman rode in the TBM Avenger. Somehow, I think this working for a living can have its moments.
Tomorrow after our guests arrive, we will crankup the N3N Stearman, TBM, A1E Skyraider, Strikemaster, L39, P51, Zero, Cobra, Huey's....and have a grand time!
I will try to get some photos to post....
Time for Grandpa to bed down for the night!
Dynamic Component....I have a very dear friend that flew in the 48th with Mason....he seconds that account....most of the account is borrowed from others that did the job and marched on...he absolutely spits when he hears of Mason....I dunno...wasn't in that unit but I do suspect my friend might be telling the truth....his reaction was too forceful to be made up.
Look forward to seeing your pictures. In the meantime, I think this might be your Strikemaster.
Heliport
Tomorrow after our guests arrive, we will crankup the N3N Stearman, TBM, A1E Skyraider, Strikemaster, L39, P51, Zero, Cobra, Huey's....and have a grand time!
I will try to get some photos to post....
Time for Grandpa to bed down for the night!Dynamic Component....I have a very dear friend that flew in the 48th with Mason....he seconds that account....most of the account is borrowed from others that did the job and marched on...he absolutely spits when he hears of Mason....I dunno...wasn't in that unit but I do suspect my friend might be telling the truth....his reaction was too forceful to be made up.
Look forward to seeing your pictures. In the meantime, I think this might be your Strikemaster.
Heliport
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Canberra
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SASLESS/Dynamic Component,
Thanks for the further insight into the history. I must say for those who don't know, in the second book he identifies quite a few of the characters mentioned in the first book and their deeds etc.
Cheers
Hueywsh
Thanks for the further insight into the history. I must say for those who don't know, in the second book he identifies quite a few of the characters mentioned in the first book and their deeds etc.
Cheers
Hueywsh
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Victoria
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
maybe the screen writers have never bothered to read it
maybe the content is too single minded/technically focused & the remainder of the story-line too thin
(assumptions; not my opinion - i love the book, read it double figures)
'We were Soldiers' is probably as close as you are going to get to it & most likely any attempt to make a movie based on Chickenhawk would be seen as purley an attempt to capitalise on the 'success' of "We were Soldiers"
don't get me wrong - i'd love to see it done (well), with the same effort of getting it right as 'Blackhawk down'
maybe hollywood is all 'Vietnam-ed' out
perhaps they are looking for other avenues, particularly now post 9/11 & with Iraq still going, lots of people trying to stop thinking about war.
(x-military, so don't go hippy bashing me, if i was still in i know where i'd be)
in short, i don't know why & i wish it weren't so.
maybe the content is too single minded/technically focused & the remainder of the story-line too thin
(assumptions; not my opinion - i love the book, read it double figures)
'We were Soldiers' is probably as close as you are going to get to it & most likely any attempt to make a movie based on Chickenhawk would be seen as purley an attempt to capitalise on the 'success' of "We were Soldiers"
don't get me wrong - i'd love to see it done (well), with the same effort of getting it right as 'Blackhawk down'
maybe hollywood is all 'Vietnam-ed' out
perhaps they are looking for other avenues, particularly now post 9/11 & with Iraq still going, lots of people trying to stop thinking about war.
(x-military, so don't go hippy bashing me, if i was still in i know where i'd be)
in short, i don't know why & i wish it weren't so.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: South of the Equator
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Leave it alone...!!!
Two great Novels.
Chickenhawk and the Flight of the Intruder !!!
The later was ruined by a sub standard Hollywood production.
Lets leave the other masterpiece alone.
Chickenhawk and the Flight of the Intruder !!!
The later was ruined by a sub standard Hollywood production.
Lets leave the other masterpiece alone.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Excellent question. I thought the same thing when I read it a few years ago. I even wrote a treatment for a script for it (yes, a literate pilot - can you believe it ?) but got nowhere.
Feedback I received from agent and production companies was more related to Apocalypse Now and the feeling of it having 'been done'.
BTW, IMHO Blackhawk Down was boring. Very well, 'realistically' made but no fun to watch and characters not engaging. Didn't care what happened to them. Maybe I've been in Africa too long as none of it makes any difference in the medium term anyway...
Feedback I received from agent and production companies was more related to Apocalypse Now and the feeling of it having 'been done'.
BTW, IMHO Blackhawk Down was boring. Very well, 'realistically' made but no fun to watch and characters not engaging. Didn't care what happened to them. Maybe I've been in Africa too long as none of it makes any difference in the medium term anyway...
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: May you live in Interesting Times
Age: 75
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My guess would be it's P.O.V.
I suspect that, as I am sure that you have already noted the only film made recently on the topic of the Vietnam war was the turgid, and poorly crafted 'We were Soldiers..". It is much more resemblent of a WW2 movie with it's cardboard and simplistic reduction of the war to black and white and good v. evil.
As the current political polar extremes continue to manifest themselves on a daily basis during the current presidential campaign in the US, it is apparent that the divisions of the Vietnam era are still vibrantly alive and not at all resolved in the public eye.
The book, "Chickenhawk" is not only well done but also accurate in it's portrayal of life 'on the line' as a helo pilot in VN. I was there in 70-71 and also based in II Corps, and I was surprised at the similiarities far outnumbering the contrasts despite the intervening years since the timeframe the book describes.
I believe that no major studio, (for the forseeable future) with the US currently engaged in multiple conflicts in the present tense would consider making a film which wasn't ~appropriately~ 'on message'.
Sad but true. But then, as we already know... "truth is always the first casualty".
As the current political polar extremes continue to manifest themselves on a daily basis during the current presidential campaign in the US, it is apparent that the divisions of the Vietnam era are still vibrantly alive and not at all resolved in the public eye.
The book, "Chickenhawk" is not only well done but also accurate in it's portrayal of life 'on the line' as a helo pilot in VN. I was there in 70-71 and also based in II Corps, and I was surprised at the similiarities far outnumbering the contrasts despite the intervening years since the timeframe the book describes.
I believe that no major studio, (for the forseeable future) with the US currently engaged in multiple conflicts in the present tense would consider making a film which wasn't ~appropriately~ 'on message'.
Sad but true. But then, as we already know... "truth is always the first casualty".
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: TI
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem with this book is that unfortunately a lot of the "experiences" were not first hand of the author and some of it is a complete crock. Quite a few vets I have spoken to agree. Apart from that there is hardly a "story" in it unless you happen to have an interest in helicopters.
Right Stuff....
I have seen the reaction of several people who served with Mason in Vietnam...one of them is a very credible source having shared the cockpit with Mason. He tells me a very different account of events than those presented in the book "Chickenhawk". His strong dislike of Mason is quite out of character and I have to assume his views are founded on a reaction to what the book claims as being "firsthand" and in reality is more like second or third hand. Mason tells a good story...but the book appears to be more a novel than a recounting of Mason's time in combat. (As I hear it from some of those pilots that were in his unit.) These comments were told and re-told at VHPA conventions over the years....where the actual truth lies....who knows.
I have seen the reaction of several people who served with Mason in Vietnam...one of them is a very credible source having shared the cockpit with Mason. He tells me a very different account of events than those presented in the book "Chickenhawk". His strong dislike of Mason is quite out of character and I have to assume his views are founded on a reaction to what the book claims as being "firsthand" and in reality is more like second or third hand. Mason tells a good story...but the book appears to be more a novel than a recounting of Mason's time in combat. (As I hear it from some of those pilots that were in his unit.) These comments were told and re-told at VHPA conventions over the years....where the actual truth lies....who knows.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Victoria
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
perhaps chickenhawk is more akin to 'permission to kill', a fiction based of a door gunner on 'polution IV'
the smoke screen ship .
the Author (name evades me & i don't have a copy) uses fictitious characters, but all tales are based on true accounts/incidents, that the author has collated into a single characters' vietnam experience.
At least that author pointed this out in the prologue.
A pity about chickenhawks integrity, still makes for a good read though.
the smoke screen ship .
the Author (name evades me & i don't have a copy) uses fictitious characters, but all tales are based on true accounts/incidents, that the author has collated into a single characters' vietnam experience.
At least that author pointed this out in the prologue.
A pity about chickenhawks integrity, still makes for a good read though.
The film "Blackhawk Down" was excellent...having flown in Moga...the location chosen was too close to accurate in some cases. It was very close to reality for current film makers...to the extent...one of the "Little Bird" pilots in the film...re-enacted his actual flight in the affair.
The book....was extremely good reading...I came away with a lot of respect for our latest generation of war fighters. But, at the same time, I retained my same conviction they deserved better senior commanders. Some of the decisions made by the bosses reminded me of the incompetency that can be fostered by a rigid bureaucracy which promotes uniformity and conformity at the expense of innovative and creative thinking.
Those young Rangers proved that courage and individual abilities are the core strengths of the military. It is a shame they had to suffer the losses they did for the lack of political will and spineless commanders who continue to be afraid to blow the BS whistle.
The documentary about the fight was much more interesting than was the film. Seeing the young men tell their accounts and hearing how they overcame such tremendous odds was an impressive tale. It is yet another case where brave young men die and suffering crippling wounds because of inept commanders.
The book....was extremely good reading...I came away with a lot of respect for our latest generation of war fighters. But, at the same time, I retained my same conviction they deserved better senior commanders. Some of the decisions made by the bosses reminded me of the incompetency that can be fostered by a rigid bureaucracy which promotes uniformity and conformity at the expense of innovative and creative thinking.
Those young Rangers proved that courage and individual abilities are the core strengths of the military. It is a shame they had to suffer the losses they did for the lack of political will and spineless commanders who continue to be afraid to blow the BS whistle.
The documentary about the fight was much more interesting than was the film. Seeing the young men tell their accounts and hearing how they overcame such tremendous odds was an impressive tale. It is yet another case where brave young men die and suffering crippling wounds because of inept commanders.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Anywhere the wind blows
Age: 61
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another good read in the same vein, is called Let a Soldier Die, Rated up there alongside Chikenhawk and The 13th Valley, praised my Robert Mason on the back of the book, written by William E Holland
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SASLess - many thanks for the reply; can't stand knocking without a bit of substantiation. As you say though, he does tell a good story which keeps me turning the pages every time I pick it up.
Not too many helicopter books written from the pilot's perspective to begin with. So Mason has attained a kind of cult-hero status among our lot, simply because he seemed to have gotten so much of the technical stuff right. I can still recall the day back in, oh, 1970 or '71, sitting in my local public library while my wide-eyed, 15 year-old self eagerly read the chapter in which he quoted the Huey Pre-Start checklist. Riveting to me, even if it was not so to my friends.
But let's not forget that Mason turned into a real dirtbag drug-dealer afterward. So we must ask: Did Viet Nam make him that way? Or was he a dirt-bag even before he went over? I've known one or two helicopter pilots in my life. Some of them are quite dislikeable (heck, I may be one of them). It would not surprise me in the least if Mason was one of them. Words on a two-dimensional page can never adequately describe a three-dimensional person. Maybe the real Mason was not deserving of the high esteem to which he has typically been held.
But let's not forget that Mason turned into a real dirtbag drug-dealer afterward. So we must ask: Did Viet Nam make him that way? Or was he a dirt-bag even before he went over? I've known one or two helicopter pilots in my life. Some of them are quite dislikeable (heck, I may be one of them). It would not surprise me in the least if Mason was one of them. Words on a two-dimensional page can never adequately describe a three-dimensional person. Maybe the real Mason was not deserving of the high esteem to which he has typically been held.