Lilium vertical take off "jet"

[Hot and Hi]

Originally Posted by 212man

There will be a lecture about it at RAeS HQ next month: https://www.aerosociety.com/events-c...he-lilium-jet/

Seems like an in-person event only?

[212man]

Originally Posted by Hot and Hi

Seems like an in-person event only?

I suspect it will be available to watch online later. Here is last year’s

You Tube

[mickjoebill]

Latest video drop from Lillium.
I'm interested in feedback from wind tunnel experts of the scenes shot in the wind tunnel. In particular the scenes where the ambient lighting in the wind tunnel appears to be ultra violet.
Is this lighting state "for real" and part of the testing regime? or was it created by the video director?
We are all interested in testing techniques, the direction of
Elon musk fired the Tesla PR team responsible for shooting videos few days ago as he said the videos were generic and made Teslas look no different any other car.
​​LIllium take note, that in my opinion as a media guy for 40 years, you've moved from an mostly authentic high quality blog to glossy promotion, in Elon Musk words you have made a generic glossy video of a unique product.
​​​​​​

You Tube

Mjb

[JimL]

Here is the URL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUNHAcca5N

[VM325]

Originally Posted by mickjoebill

Latest video drop from Lillium.
I'm interested in feedback from wind tunnel experts of the scenes shot in the wind tunnel. In particular the scenes where the ambient lighting in the wind tunnel appears to be ultra violet.
Is this lighting state "for real" and part of the testing regime? or was it created by the video director?
We are all interested in testing techniques, the direction of
Elon musk fired the Tesla PR team responsible for shooting videos few days ago as he said the videos were generic and made Teslas look no different any other car.
​​LIllium take note, that in my opinion as a media guy for 40 years, you've moved from an mostly authentic high quality blog to glossy promotion, in Elon Musk words you have made a generic glossy video of a unique product.
​​​​​
https://youtu.be/Jj8f02iI1d4?si=_Y-IejD2-FMfhoME

Mjb

The UV light is used in conjunction with flo-vis paint to visualise boundary layer flows on the model...

Link here...

And Ferrari did it for fun...

[helispotter]

Originally Posted by Kulwin Park

...It has so much going for it due to not having rotating dynamic components anywhere.

I realise I am asking about an old post, but doesn't it have at least 30 rotating dynamic components by way of all those ducted fans? Doesn't seem simple to me. I assume all fans need to be in good working order prior to any proposed flight.

[mickjoebill]

The 8th anniversary of this thread!

​​​​​​Lillium have just announced they will show at European Business Aviation Convention....a full size model and a flight sim!

https://www.facebook.com/share/8rfMX...ibextid=xfxF2i

[casper64]

Originally Posted by mickjoebill

The 8th anniversary of this thread!

8 Years! Wow, that must mean this bird has been certified some time ago and is flying by the hundreds between our various metropolises right?

[Ascend Charlie]

Lillium have just announced they will show at European Business Aviation Convention....a full size model and a flight sim!

​​​​​​​About the same rate of production as Hill Helicopters....

[mickjoebill]

Lilium letter to shareholders states that it plans full size manned test flight by years end. This looks like it will be manufactured on their new production line.

https://lilium.com/newsroom-detail/l...eholder-letter

Mjb

[farsouth]

Originally Posted by mickjoebill

Lilium letter to shareholders states that it plans full size manned test flight by years end. This looks like it will be manufactured on their new production line.

https://lilium.com/newsroom-detail/l...eholder-letter

Mjb

I guess “plans” is one of those “forward looking statements” that they define further down in the shareholder letter.

“This press release and the shareholder letter referenced herein contain certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the U.S. federal securities laws.

These forward-looking statements generally are identified by the words “anticipate,” “believe,” “could,” “expect,” “estimate,” “future,” “intend,” “may,” “on track,” “plan,” “project,” “should,” “strategy,” “target,” “will,” “would” and similar expressions. Forward-looking statements are predictions, projections, and other statements about future events that are based on management’s current expectations with respect to future events and are based on assumptions and are subject to risk and uncertainties that are subject to change at any time.

Actual events or results may differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements.”

[Less Hair]

They seem to be flying since some time. Why don't they just show a vehicle flight demo, manned or not, say at Farnborough?

[mickjoebill]

Lots of info in this discussion about business models, production and flight testing.
Well worth watching, how to certify a new airframe 101.

Manned flight by year end.
Initially serving Regional shuttle transport, 6 seater, 200kms
Low running costs low maintenance "almost nothing to maintain" so very high use.

Globally 40,000 evtol shuttle aircraft by 2035
Lillium has 1050 employees to begin the production phase.

Building 3 fullsize flyable aircraft this year plus 3 other aircraft to assist certification.
Certification of production aircraft following 18 months flight testing, so two years until paying passengers.
Light at the end of the tunnel...
$1.5Billion from China, other funds but more funds needed.
Order book of 700 aircraft, 70 are confirmed.
In terms of safety, certify 10 power 9, aircraft is "as safe as an Airbus A350"

You Tube

[casper64]

Originally Posted by mickjoebill

In terms of safety, certify 10 power 9, aircraft is "as safe as an Airbus A350"

Really? So also fully de-iced and IFR capable? Or only that safe in Dubai where the suns shines all year round and the temps stay above 25?
Oh, wait… are those batteries ok with 50 degrees OAT?

[CTR]

Originally Posted by mickjoebill

Low running costs low maintenance "almost nothing to maintain" so very high use.

Globally 40,000 evtol shuttle aircraft by 2035

Lillium has 1050 employees to begin the production phase

In terms of safety, certify 10 power 9, aircraft is "as safe as an Airbus A350"

https://youtu.be/Mm1UtdtGDCQ?si=icRI7oLsCuC4QtK7

Unpacking this sales pitch to ignorant investors;

Lillium aircraft have near zero parts that fatigue, require periodic lubrication, wear out, or suffer component failures. The physics law of entropy has been repealed.

Assuming an optimist certification in 2026, production will average 40,000 / 9 = 4,444 aircraft per year, or approximately 90 units per week. In the history of aircraft manufacturing, has any one aircraft achieved this rate of production?

If the Lillium is as safe as a AB 350, why not just certify to all the existing EASA/FAA Part 25 and 29 regulations?

[mickjoebill]

Assuming an optimist certification in 2026, production will average 40,000 / 9 = 4,444 aircraft per year, or approximately 90 units per week. In the history of aircraft manufacturing, has any one aircraft achieved this rate of production?

Maybe recent advancements in auto industry can be applied to aviation, does a giga press have a significant role to play in fuselage manufacturing?

Mjb


​​​​​​

[Less Hair]

Maybe it would be a good moment for some reality check? Those assumed future production numbers are pure fantasy. Let's see the product flying first and then watch the market response.

[wrench1]

Originally Posted by CTR

If the Lillium is as safe as a AB 350, why not just certify to all the existing EASA/FAA Part 25 and 29 regulations?

For one, none of the powered-lift aircraft are considered transport category so it would have been Part 23 and Part 27. Unfortunately to use those regulatory parts for an eVTOL or AW609 certification would require an excessive amount of exemptions and other work arounds.

The FAA had used the 23/27 route initially but ran into issues so they made a right turn and elected to follow the EASA lead and write a new regulatory Part for powered-lift. However, to keep things moving until a new part can be written, the 609, Joby, Archer, etc aircraft are being certified as a Part 21.17 Special Class aircraft which cherry-picks various individual regulations from various certification Parts.

[CTR]

Originally Posted by wrench1

For one, none of the powered-lift aircraft are considered transport category so it would have been Part 23 and Part 27. Unfortunately to use those regulatory parts for an eVTOL or AW609 certification would require an excessive amount of exemptions and other work arounds.

wrench1,

The AB 350 was certified under Part 25.1309 which requires system safety analysis proving <E-9 probably of catastrophic failure. Part 29.1309 for rotorcraft has similar section to meet the CAT A performance requirement. These section requirements for system safety are not included in 23 and 27.

If Lillium is claiming that they are as safe as an AB 350, (or a 609) they need to show they meet the requirements laid out in 1309 for Probability of catastrophic failure.

[wrench1]

Originally Posted by CTR

These section requirements for system safety are not included in 23 and 27.

Part 23 and 27 address those same requirements under their respective x.1309 sections. However, Part 23 was rewritten about 7 yeats ago and the current 23.1309 was moved to a different standard format.

If Lillium is claiming that they are as safe as an AB 350, (or a 609) they need to show they meet the requirements laid out in 1309 for Probability of catastrophic failure.

And they will from what I've seen written in the current and future power-lift certification guidance. That same guidance actually increases the use of failure probability limits across a larger number of certification requirements since the guidance is performance based. So its quite possible once certified the Lillium or other power-lift aircraft will be technically equal to or possibly exceed the AB 350 failure probability requirements.