End of the 225?
All the helicopters involved in fatal accidents in the North Sea seem to captained by middle-aged european men but I don't expect them to be replaced by 20 year old SE asian women any time soon.
This is maybe because the middle-aged white men are doing nearly all the work and it's therefore not news and no reason to ignore hundreds of thousands of flying hours without a fatal accident.
This is maybe because the middle-aged white men are doing nearly all the work and it's therefore not news and no reason to ignore hundreds of thousands of flying hours without a fatal accident.
The self loading cargo might react similarly to having the same captain on board (if recognized) as the one that flew 11 of their colleges to their death a few months ago.
That's the unfortunate situation with the EC225.
MB....your question has a problem built-in to it.
If buying a current MK of the MGB....and not a new design and fully tested and proven Gearbox....it would only be worth what is can bring as scrap iron.
The 225 is history as far as the North Sea is concerned and by default....in all Offshore Operations.
Some military forces might continue to use it....but if they start seeing failures as has happened in the civilian side of things....then the 225 will find itself as gunnery range targets.
If buying a current MK of the MGB....and not a new design and fully tested and proven Gearbox....it would only be worth what is can bring as scrap iron.
The 225 is history as far as the North Sea is concerned and by default....in all Offshore Operations.
Some military forces might continue to use it....but if they start seeing failures as has happened in the civilian side of things....then the 225 will find itself as gunnery range targets.
There are over 100 aircraft that AH will need to fix. EuroCopter would not likely have had the financial resources to survive this problem. But the new owners Airbus does have the financial resources to make the repairs required on the aircraft to return them to service with some new customer. The significant cost of fixing the aircraft is preferable to the financial damage to Airbus Helicopter's reputation by scrapping them.
Also consider that AH intended to keep the EC225 model in production for another decade. And its replacement model, the X6, won't be ready for several years.
Also consider that AH intended to keep the EC225 model in production for another decade. And its replacement model, the X6, won't be ready for several years.
Ultimately it'll come down to whether AH want to be in the large helo game long-term. If they do (and national pride / mil-spec will want to come into play) then they'll find a way of unwinding the mess (at least for governmental use) even if it means throwing money at it. Offshore rep is more driven by the staff of the ultimate customers so in that sector the EC225 is dead and will need a clean-sheet replacement (possibly an upscaled 175 as an interim).
please don't bring the 175 to the party its not a shining light of perfection and please don't mention up scaling it ( thats what got the 330 to the 225 and started this mess)
having done gearbox inspections on eurocopter and other manufacturers boxes what always surprised me was the apparent lower quality of the eurocopter machining and amount of tooling marks left behind. When they re engineered the pump shaft you could see a step change in quality.
look how long that shaft took to produce and certify...
There maybe some market for the 225 but if I was in the board room I would be looking at the next product and putting my efforts in to that rather than a band aid on a lame duck.
Imagine the cost of a new gearbox development and production for a legacy design with limited appeal in its primary market.
having done gearbox inspections on eurocopter and other manufacturers boxes what always surprised me was the apparent lower quality of the eurocopter machining and amount of tooling marks left behind. When they re engineered the pump shaft you could see a step change in quality.
look how long that shaft took to produce and certify...
There maybe some market for the 225 but if I was in the board room I would be looking at the next product and putting my efforts in to that rather than a band aid on a lame duck.
Imagine the cost of a new gearbox development and production for a legacy design with limited appeal in its primary market.
It does take us back to the discussion about how much better the 225 was than the 92 due to the Flight Management system of the 225.
I suppose that argument has become a moot point in light of the cast iron failures.
I suppose that argument has become a moot point in light of the cast iron failures.
Fundamental problem in the upper end of the rotary game is its always a derivative or an evolution of a mil platform. The civil "large" sector just doesn't justify a clean sheet, unique design from an investment payback perspective.
Look at how long it took SIK to get the S92 selling and even that was based on the Black Hawk. In reality there have never really have been any true "clean sheet" designs since WW2 and in some respects the design issues for rotary demand some form of prior sub-system operational data (versus FW where a theory/modelled approach works better) even if, ironically, it ultimately unravels the assumptions. Vibration and load transmission behaviour is unfortunately not reliably transferred or scaled.
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+1. A coat of paint capable of sticking to the gearbox would also have been nice. AH seem to be a victim of the’ No1 why try harder’ mentality.
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AH is planning to replace the H225 with their X6 model. They wanted to keep the H225 model in production for at least another 10 years, and the X6 won't be ready for at least another 6-7 years. Since sales of the H225 are no longer much of a possibility going forward, the only option AH has is to accelerate the X6 program.
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They wanted to keep the H225 model in production for at least another 10 years, and the X6 won't be ready for at least another 6-7 years.
It would be very surprising to see the military ditch their 225 models.
Military operations are expensive, so the hours flown annually are usually more like business aviation, perhaps 1-200 hours/yr, rather than the 1000 hours/yr plus normal in commercial service.
The system remains well suited to its original design mission, lifting heavily armed troops in high/hot conditions. The more demanding maintenance that AH and the regulators may impose are trivial expenses compared to the cost of a fleet renewal.
Maybe the German government will no longer fly Angela Merkel in one, but for most it will be business as usual.
So from an operational perspective, a rough patch for AH, but not life threatening.
Military operations are expensive, so the hours flown annually are usually more like business aviation, perhaps 1-200 hours/yr, rather than the 1000 hours/yr plus normal in commercial service.
The system remains well suited to its original design mission, lifting heavily armed troops in high/hot conditions. The more demanding maintenance that AH and the regulators may impose are trivial expenses compared to the cost of a fleet renewal.
Maybe the German government will no longer fly Angela Merkel in one, but for most it will be business as usual.
So from an operational perspective, a rough patch for AH, but not life threatening.
What kind of training?
What kind of op tempo?
IIRC, the SH-60B was acquired with the idea that they'd last about 10,000 hours over a service life of up to 20 years. That's about 500 hours per year.
Lone,
I have flown Bell 212's that had well over 35,000 hours....if I remember correctly we had one go 41,000 hours....before being sold off as scrap only to find new life in Canada after a proper overhaul/rebuild.
I have a Clock from one that I flew on its last Revenue flight and it had 37,000 hours.
The Columbia Helicopters 107's are probably far over those hours and keep on flogging about the World.
I have flown Bell 212's that had well over 35,000 hours....if I remember correctly we had one go 41,000 hours....before being sold off as scrap only to find new life in Canada after a proper overhaul/rebuild.
I have a Clock from one that I flew on its last Revenue flight and it had 37,000 hours.
The Columbia Helicopters 107's are probably far over those hours and keep on flogging about the World.
Lone,
I have flown Bell 212's that had well over 35,000 hours....if I remember correctly we had one go 41,000 hours....before being sold off as scrap only to find new life in Canada after a proper overhaul/rebuild.
I have a Clock from one that I flew on its last Revenue flight and it had 37,000 hours.
The Columbia Helicopters 107's are probably far over those hours and keep on flogging about the World.
I have flown Bell 212's that had well over 35,000 hours....if I remember correctly we had one go 41,000 hours....before being sold off as scrap only to find new life in Canada after a proper overhaul/rebuild.
I have a Clock from one that I flew on its last Revenue flight and it had 37,000 hours.
The Columbia Helicopters 107's are probably far over those hours and keep on flogging about the World.