EC225 crash near Bergen, Norway April 2016
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What happened to the Airbus, AIBN and CHC leading us to believe there was no human error/misinterpretations. I would think forgetting to install the diaper pins would be human error ... Just saying. I think "we" is just throwing something out there.
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re: suspension strut pins .... whether loose , wrong size , or retaining clips missing I cannot see them falling out in flight ..... they are carrying +20,000 lbs and you could not drive them out with a sledge hammer.
On the ground with just enough lift to equal the MRG and rotor system (no weight on the pin) it could move a bit .... maybe that is what happened .... pin slid partway and only 2 of the 3 eyelets were carrying the load and bracket bent and distorted in flight .... just thinking out loud at possible scenarios.
On the ground with just enough lift to equal the MRG and rotor system (no weight on the pin) it could move a bit .... maybe that is what happened .... pin slid partway and only 2 of the 3 eyelets were carrying the load and bracket bent and distorted in flight .... just thinking out loud at possible scenarios.
SkyGod
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. re: suspension strut pins .... whether loose , wrong size , or retaining clips missing I cannot see them falling out in flight ..... they are carrying +20,000 lbs and you could not drive them out with
Constant vibration with loading and un-loading of the strut pin(s) could certainly move it sideways, slowly but surely.
I sure as hell would not bet my rotor or my life on a guess the pin would not move if not secured.
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Latest from AIBN, not that it adds too much:
"All the components from the helicopter are now moved to the AIBN's facilities in Lillestrøm. The helicopter parts were transported on two trailers, and arrived on Thursday morning. Here, the AIBN will continue its efforts to sort and analyze both components and other information. The participants in the investigation are currently working from their home bases, before the team gathers in Lillestrøm early next week to continue the work together.
The search for components at the accident site will resume tomorrow. The main focus for the search is for parts connected to the main gearbox. The search will continue as long as required."
Dom
"All the components from the helicopter are now moved to the AIBN's facilities in Lillestrøm. The helicopter parts were transported on two trailers, and arrived on Thursday morning. Here, the AIBN will continue its efforts to sort and analyze both components and other information. The participants in the investigation are currently working from their home bases, before the team gathers in Lillestrøm early next week to continue the work together.
The search for components at the accident site will resume tomorrow. The main focus for the search is for parts connected to the main gearbox. The search will continue as long as required."
Dom
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More or less the same info:
Norwegian newspaper, VG, reporting this afternoon that the AIBN is still looking for more parts from the gearbox. They say, they "have much of it, but still need more pieces".
Further on they say that "all the parts they've got is all important in this early stage of investigation. A gearbox like this contains many parts - and we are still missing several pieces".
Norwegian newspaper, VG, reporting this afternoon that the AIBN is still looking for more parts from the gearbox. They say, they "have much of it, but still need more pieces".
Further on they say that "all the parts they've got is all important in this early stage of investigation. A gearbox like this contains many parts - and we are still missing several pieces".
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May eat my words on this but not buying the missing diaper pin theory. Mainly due to the length of time between the accident and the MRH/MGB replacements. Having worked in the industry long enough, find it really hard to believe, at this time with all the safety nets, such a critical part would be missed. The first engineer would have to forget, the second engineer (initialing the independent) would either have to have gained enough trust in the first guy not to look, however, I cant imagine he wouldn't at least asked (which is when you would think the first guy would go "oh $#%&"). There would most likely be a checklist/greasy thumb copy of the major component replacement that gets attached to the work card where someone checked installing the pins (again "oh %$^*, I forgot the pins). Now this is just the 2 guys signing for the job, there would be several other engineers involved in replacing either of the above 2 components, possibly even a shift change (maybe not for MRH) where another set of guys would have been involved. After all that, hangar/stand cleanup, I think someone would have noted a firewall panel, washer and 2 diaper pins left over and questioned why.
So all that got missed, the aircraft has been flying for a month (according to the rumors) since the MRH replacement. There would have been a significant amount of daily inspections, preflights and turnarounds in which no engineer picked up of the missing panel. I realize its down in the bottom of the firewall behind the engine but I think it would be picked up on a daily. Engineers minds are trained to pick up on the anomalies not the thing that are correct. Again, after all that time, someone is now just noting the significance of the parts sitting in the hangar ... I don't know guys, really seems far fetched to me.
I guess nothing is impossible but its not like this is HS's first go at a puma. I do not work for HS but I do think they are a probably the most experienced super puma operators out there. CHC like all the other big boys, have all the known safety nets in place and is just hard to think such a small yet critical step creeped through the cracks for so long.
Obviously like everything else on here, this is just my own speculation and in due time we will hopefully find out the true cause so that the chances of it happening again are minimised.
So all that got missed, the aircraft has been flying for a month (according to the rumors) since the MRH replacement. There would have been a significant amount of daily inspections, preflights and turnarounds in which no engineer picked up of the missing panel. I realize its down in the bottom of the firewall behind the engine but I think it would be picked up on a daily. Engineers minds are trained to pick up on the anomalies not the thing that are correct. Again, after all that time, someone is now just noting the significance of the parts sitting in the hangar ... I don't know guys, really seems far fetched to me.
I guess nothing is impossible but its not like this is HS's first go at a puma. I do not work for HS but I do think they are a probably the most experienced super puma operators out there. CHC like all the other big boys, have all the known safety nets in place and is just hard to think such a small yet critical step creeped through the cracks for so long.
Obviously like everything else on here, this is just my own speculation and in due time we will hopefully find out the true cause so that the chances of it happening again are minimised.
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Any unlocked pin that is a sliding fit (not a press fit) in a vibrating environment has a good chance of rotating even if it does this very slowly.
If that happens on a vertical pin ( up down ) it may/should stay in the hole by gravity. On a horizontal pin all bets are off. It can't move any farther in one direction but it sure can go the other way. Could take weeks.
If that happens on a vertical pin ( up down ) it may/should stay in the hole by gravity. On a horizontal pin all bets are off. It can't move any farther in one direction but it sure can go the other way. Could take weeks.
We may assume they mean the crash site and not the maintenance hangar or store room I guess!
More or less the same info:
Norwegian newspaper, VG, reporting this afternoon that the AIBN is still looking for more parts from the gearbox. They say, they "have much of it, but still need more pieces".
Further on they say that "all the parts they've got is all important in this early stage of investigation. A gearbox like this contains many parts - and we are still missing several pieces".
Norwegian newspaper, VG, reporting this afternoon that the AIBN is still looking for more parts from the gearbox. They say, they "have much of it, but still need more pieces".
Further on they say that "all the parts they've got is all important in this early stage of investigation. A gearbox like this contains many parts - and we are still missing several pieces".
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So Shell's suspension stands and they are about to start flying with Bristow in Norway.
https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandga...ights-bristow/
Have they revealed anything about the Shell Aircraft review?
https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandga...ights-bristow/
Have they revealed anything about the Shell Aircraft review?
Would it be fair to say that the aircraft was just at top of descent, about to make its final approach into the airfield. This is assuming that the crew had made any control input at all that might have precipitated the sudden break-up.
If so, the rotorhead and gearbox were being unloaded, not loaded. The former might lead to the final critical slipping of the strut retaining pin, rather than loading up the head which might lead to gearbox, strut mounting failure.
As I recall, the bottom of the strut feeds into a fork arrangement where the pin is threaded through two eyelets. Assuming (again huge assumptions) that there were no diaper pins and firewall plate, how far would the pin have to move to release the strut. Would coming out of one eyelet be enough to lose the structural strength of the pin?
If so, the rotorhead and gearbox were being unloaded, not loaded. The former might lead to the final critical slipping of the strut retaining pin, rather than loading up the head which might lead to gearbox, strut mounting failure.
As I recall, the bottom of the strut feeds into a fork arrangement where the pin is threaded through two eyelets. Assuming (again huge assumptions) that there were no diaper pins and firewall plate, how far would the pin have to move to release the strut. Would coming out of one eyelet be enough to lose the structural strength of the pin?
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Can't be a Sus Bar failure because the Gearbox split in 2 parts.
Sus Bar or Pin failure would see the Barby Plate and whole gearbox leave the scene. Almost has to be major Gear failure internal to the Gbox.
I bet my bottom dollar they are the bits they want to still find.
Sus Bar or Pin failure would see the Barby Plate and whole gearbox leave the scene. Almost has to be major Gear failure internal to the Gbox.
I bet my bottom dollar they are the bits they want to still find.
So many 225 fan boys falling for the Airbus ploy of deflection.
Forget the AH and DGAC noise, they are simply covering their backsides and are totally untrustworthy. The stakes a very high and they are trying to save a product line here.
The truth will come out once it is known. It is NOT known at the moment IMHO.
Forget the AH and DGAC noise, they are simply covering their backsides and are totally untrustworthy. The stakes a very high and they are trying to save a product line here.
The truth will come out once it is known. It is NOT known at the moment IMHO.
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Originally Posted by buzz66
Can't be a Sus Bar failure because the Gearbox split in 2 parts.
Sus Bar or Pin failure would see the Barby Plate and whole gearbox leave the scene. Almost has to be major Gear failure internal to the Gbox.
Sus Bar or Pin failure would see the Barby Plate and whole gearbox leave the scene. Almost has to be major Gear failure internal to the Gbox.
buzz66
Let's work the odds here for your bet. Forget the stuff about the split and the barby plate.
Has anything like this happened before? Yes.
Was it the bars or the epicyclic module that failed? Epicyclic module.
Eh? ...
Let's work the odds here for your bet. Forget the stuff about the split and the barby plate.
Has anything like this happened before? Yes.
Was it the bars or the epicyclic module that failed? Epicyclic module.
Eh? ...