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EC225 crash near Bergen, Norway April 2016

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EC225 crash near Bergen, Norway April 2016

Old 2nd Jun 2016, 17:01
  #1101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TommyL View Post
I bet your name is Will, and next you're gonna tell us to get "our big boys pants on"...wonder if Mr. Barbier regrets that he even got out of bed that day. But then again, people like that seldom care about other peoples feelings.

Oil workers were told to put on 'big-boy pants' at safety meeting before Shetland helicopter crash | Daily Mail Online

If you're even a offshore helicopter pilot...some of the things you say here tells me you 're probably not...with the mockery and ridicule of peoples fear and concerns. Not a nice attitude for sure.
Good old Chris and Will sensible voices in a world of confusion, anyone know what they are doing now?
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 17:03
  #1102 (permalink)  
 
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If you're even a offshore helicopter pilot...some of the things you say here tells me you 're probably not...with the mockery and ridicule of peoples fear and concerns. Not a nice attitude for sure.
Well he's not anymore, as he's retired, but he was for about 30 years if that counts! He knows a thing or two about the Puma family too....
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 17:05
  #1103 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps the better term to use may be "overhauled" vs "new" gearbox.
It would, perhaps, avoid much confusion.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 17:16
  #1104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Miles Gustaph View Post
Where has the report of 'unkind treatment' come from? and seems odd that this has not been mentioned in any reports?
It is here http://www.tu.no/artikler/hovedgirbo...opteret/347805 . Unfortunately in Norwegian, but usually quite reliable.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 17:17
  #1105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TommyL View Post
If you're even a offshore helicopter pilot...some of the things you say here tells me you 're probably not...with the mockery and ridicule of peoples fear and concerns. Not a nice attitude for sure.
I'm a retired helicopter pilot so I can say what I like, which is great. Let's be clear, I dedicated quite a bit of my career to flight safety projects and enhancements. All based on science and rationality even bearing in mind the hefty dose of human factors that goes with any flight safety project.

So if you have any questions about flight safety on the EC225 (which I flew since it first came to the N Sea, until I retired in 2013) I'll be happy to try to answer them. However if you are going to come on here making foolish, hysterical and ill-informed statements designed to whip up fear, you are going to get the respect you deserve which is not a lot.


Flight safety should be based on fact and science, not who can wail and sob the loudest.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 17:19
  #1106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brother View Post
The Gearbox overhaul was performed by Heli One
What is your source for that?
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 17:20
  #1107 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.easa.europa.eu/newsroom-...-29-april-2016
Following a report by the Norwegian accident investigators on 1 June 2016, EASA has decided to prohibit all flights by the Airbus Helicopters H225 LP and AS332 L2 helicopters as a precautionary measure and until further information is available.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 17:21
  #1108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GenuineHoverBug View Post
What is your source for that?

Well as I understand it, all MGBs on CHC aircraft are overhauled at HeliOne. Whereas Bristow uses Power by the Hour and thus the boxes are overhauled at the factory.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 17:24
  #1109 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HeliComparator View Post
Well as I understand it, all MGBs on CHC aircraft are overhauled at HeliOne. Whereas Bristow uses Power by the Hour and thus the boxes are overhauled at the factory.
That may well be, but there are rules and there are sometimes exceptions.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 18:25
  #1110 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.easa.europa.eu/newsroom-...-29-april-2016
Following a report by the Norwegian accident investigators on 1 June 2016, EASA has decided to prohibit all flights by the Airbus Helicopters H225 LP and AS332 L2 helicopters as a precautionary measure and until further information is available.
Sorry, but this is bollocks! You should have read the AD 2016-0103-E and there is not a single word in regards of a suspension of TC or similar! Just a replacement of Attachment Fittings etc..
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 18:33
  #1111 (permalink)  
 
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EASA has decided to prohibit all flights by the Airbus Helicopters H225 LP and AS332 L2 helicopters as a precautionary measure and until further information is available.
Sorry, but this is bollocks! You should have read the AD 2016-0103-E and there is not a single word in regards of a suspension of TC or similar! Just a replacement of Attachment Fittings etc..
Not suspending TC but prohibiting flights - maybe it's semantics.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 18:51
  #1112 (permalink)  
 
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It is AD 2016-0104-E. It just got released. 2016-0103-E is the link that is (incorrectly) linked in the EASA newsroom article.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 18:52
  #1113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 212man View Post
Not suspending TC but prohibiting flights - maybe it's semantics.
Its very confusing because the news item on the EASA web site talks about prohibiting further flight for the time being - see our AD. But the linked-to AD just talks about checking the suspension bar fittings. Where is the definitive instruction to ground the fleet?
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 19:00
  #1114 (permalink)  
 
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Grounding order

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33...ve2016003..pdf and
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/...D20160104E.pdf
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 19:11
  #1115 (permalink)  
 
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Yes but that is the UK CAA. The question was about whether EASA had grounded all flights which they said they had in their press release, but not in the AD published today.

Edit: Ah ok thanks, different AD. The press release links to the wrong AD.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 19:13
  #1116 (permalink)  
 
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Easa has now published, but confusingly has grounded 225 and L2, but is allowing the 225 to fly for SAR etc but not the L2... confused...
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 19:30
  #1117 (permalink)  
 
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The AD (Emergency Airworthiness Directive AD No.: 2016-0104-E) landed in my Inbox just now.

The grounding of the AS 332 L2 and EC 225 LP helicopter fleet is because;

a second preliminary report from the investigation board indicated metallurgical findings of fatigue and surface degradation in the outer race of a second stage planet gear of the MGB epi-cyclic module. At this time, it cannot be determined if this is a contributing causal factor or subsequent failure from another initiating factor.
but

Pursuant to Art.1 (2) (a) of Regulation (EC) 2016/2008, the requirement of paragraph (1) of this AD does not apply to EC 225 LP helicopters while carrying out military, customs, police, search and rescue, firefighting, coastguard or similar activities or services.
Now Article 1.2 of EC 216/2008 (pity about the '2016' typo in the AD; is the omission of AS 332 L2 just the same sloppiness? I wouldn't know) says;

This Regulation shall not apply when products, parts, appliances, personnel and organisations referred to in paragraph 1 are engaged in military, customs, police, or similar services. The Member States shall undertake to ensure that such services have due regard as far as practicable to the objectives of this Regulation.
which explains the exclusion, but it seems to me that this Article is badly thought out. Apart from military, most of the other categories are operated commercially in some if not all EU States, and should, I would have thought, be grounded just like other operators, for exactly the same reason, danger to crew, passengers and the population beneath them.

I don't know if in the UK the CAA has made any pronouncements; perhaps they have or will do so to fulfil their responsibility under that Article. Maybe each State will do that; maybe they'll even co-ordinate their response.

Last edited by Capot; 2nd Jun 2016 at 19:42.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 19:44
  #1118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capot View Post

which explains the exclusion, but it seems to me that this Article is badly thought out. Apart from military, most of the other categories are operated commercially in some if not all EU States, and should, I would have thought, be grounded just like other operators, for exactly the same reason, danger to crew, passengers and the population beneath them.
No I'd say it is well thought out. Whether or not it is commercial is irelevant. The grounding is precautionary and nothing has changed since last month before the accident. If you were bobbing about in a cold ocean or stranded up a mountain having a heart attack, you would be very happy to be rescued by an EC225 regardless of a 1 in a million risk that the rotors might fall off.

The flight crews who were happy to fly the 225 for years before the accident will almost certainly still be, for the purposes of saving life. There is already an elevated risk from being a SAR pilot, compared to an "airline" helicopter pilot.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 20:02
  #1119 (permalink)  
 
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But doesn't the CAA ban stop all SAR activity? I stand to be corrected...
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 20:04
  #1120 (permalink)  
 
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I would suggest that the statement in the EASA AD reference SAR/military/police operations is simply acknowledging/reminding that these operations are carried out under the authority of the NAA of the country involved, and are not subject to EASA regulations. Therefore it is up to the NAA to decide on an approptiate action. Note: SAR training is carried out under Public Transport regulations and therefore prohibited by the EASA AD.
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