Logging Multi pilot time for EASA ATPL
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Logging Multi pilot time for EASA ATPL
To have an EASA ATPL you require 350 hours in multi-pilot helicopters.
For a flight to be accepted as multi-pilot the law that applied to the flight must require 2 pilots.
Now, looking at my case I'm a FAA flight instructor, and when teaching simulated instrument I'm also acting as a safety pilot so the flight requires 2 pilots, one that flies instrument and me "looking outside"
A safety pilot is required by the FAA in 91.109 so the flight HAS to have two pilots.
Could this count towards the 350 hours?
For a flight to be accepted as multi-pilot the law that applied to the flight must require 2 pilots.
Now, looking at my case I'm a FAA flight instructor, and when teaching simulated instrument I'm also acting as a safety pilot so the flight requires 2 pilots, one that flies instrument and me "looking outside"
A safety pilot is required by the FAA in 91.109 so the flight HAS to have two pilots.
Could this count towards the 350 hours?
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Nope. You have to have a helicopter certified for multi pilot operations and the operation must require 2 pilots. You don't fulfil the first requirement as CFII.
Definitions as per EASA Part FCL:
‘Multi-pilot operation’:
for helicopters, it means an operation requiring at least 2 pilots using multi-crew cooperation on multi-pilot helicopters.
‘Multi-pilot aircraft’:
for helicopters, airships and powered-lift aircraft, it means the type of aircraft which is required to be operated with a co-pilot as specified in the flight manual or by the air operator certificate or equivalent document.
Definitions as per EASA Part FCL:
‘Multi-pilot operation’:
for helicopters, it means an operation requiring at least 2 pilots using multi-crew cooperation on multi-pilot helicopters.
‘Multi-pilot aircraft’:
for helicopters, airships and powered-lift aircraft, it means the type of aircraft which is required to be operated with a co-pilot as specified in the flight manual or by the air operator certificate or equivalent document.
Thread Starter
I asked a question not useless sarcasm mr johni, next time you can just keep scrolling as your comments are not welcome.
To everyone else thank you, I thought that was the case but since I'm not familiar with EASA rules it was worth asking..
To everyone else thank you, I thought that was the case but since I'm not familiar with EASA rules it was worth asking..
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EASA MCC and FAA ATPL(H)
Hey MitchStick,
i can confirm what jymil says... you will need a real multi crew operation for both- the aircraft and the crew.
What about an FAA ATPL(H)? I heard that you need 100hrs night time to get an FAA ATPL(H), is it true? I'm not familiar with FAA regulations....i'm just curious.
i can confirm what jymil says... you will need a real multi crew operation for both- the aircraft and the crew.
What about an FAA ATPL(H)? I heard that you need 100hrs night time to get an FAA ATPL(H), is it true? I'm not familiar with FAA regulations....i'm just curious.
For the curious but not very inqusitive ones...
§61.161 Aeronautical experience: Rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating.
(a) A person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating, must have at least 1,200 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least:
(1) 500 hours of cross-country flight time;
(2) 100 hours of night flight time, of which 15 hours are in helicopters;
(3) 200 hours of flight time in helicopters, which includes at least 75 hours as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of a pilot in command under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof; and
(4) 75 hours of instrument flight time in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, of which at least 50 hours are obtained in flight with at least 25 hours in helicopters as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of a pilot in command under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof.
(b) Training in a flight simulator or flight training device may be credited toward the instrument flight time requirements of paragraph (a)(4) of this section, subject to the following:
(1) Training in a flight simulator or a flight training device must be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents a rotorcraft.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (b)(3) of this section, an applicant may receive credit for not more than a total of 25 hours of simulated instrument time in a flight simulator and flight training device.
(3) A maximum of 50 hours of training in a flight simulator or flight training device may be credited toward the instrument flight time requirements of paragraph (a)(4) of this section if the aeronautical experience is accomplished in an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.
§61.161 Aeronautical experience: Rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating.
(a) A person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating, must have at least 1,200 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least:
(1) 500 hours of cross-country flight time;
(2) 100 hours of night flight time, of which 15 hours are in helicopters;
(3) 200 hours of flight time in helicopters, which includes at least 75 hours as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of a pilot in command under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof; and
(4) 75 hours of instrument flight time in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, of which at least 50 hours are obtained in flight with at least 25 hours in helicopters as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of a pilot in command under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof.
(b) Training in a flight simulator or flight training device may be credited toward the instrument flight time requirements of paragraph (a)(4) of this section, subject to the following:
(1) Training in a flight simulator or a flight training device must be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents a rotorcraft.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (b)(3) of this section, an applicant may receive credit for not more than a total of 25 hours of simulated instrument time in a flight simulator and flight training device.
(3) A maximum of 50 hours of training in a flight simulator or flight training device may be credited toward the instrument flight time requirements of paragraph (a)(4) of this section if the aeronautical experience is accomplished in an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.
Thread Starter
The requirements for FAA ATPL are like GoodGrief says, but in the FAA world is much easier to fly at night you don't need any rating or anything, if you don't carry passengers you can pretty much take off and go build your night time..
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Night flights in europe largely depend on the country rules, i.e. NVFR is not allowed in Italy or Spain as far as I know. However, it's legal e.g. in Germany or Switzerland. In Switzerland, you don't even have to file a flight plan. For private flights, you can also take on passengers in a single engine. There are some other limitations, like circuit restrictions and airport opening hours.
So I'd say time building towards the 100 night hours is also feasible in europe, depending on where you are. But the 350 hours multi pilot time is impossible to accomplish without working for a company which does multi pilot operations, i.e. Offshore or VIP. EMS usually don't.
So I'd say time building towards the 100 night hours is also feasible in europe, depending on where you are. But the 350 hours multi pilot time is impossible to accomplish without working for a company which does multi pilot operations, i.e. Offshore or VIP. EMS usually don't.
Getting night time in Germany is virtually impossible to 95% of the gang.
Commercial night flights require a twin.
Most companies don't operate twins because customers don't pay for it.
Instruction might be a way but the night rating is not included in the basic PPL and at only about 30 new CPLs a year amongst lots of ATO getting 100 hours night is a lengthy process.
These EU resgs a real nightmare. In the days before JAR all one needed to get an ATP was 900 hours total and a part 29 type rating.
900 hours robbie, a BK117 rating and they blew an ATP up your arse.
Nowadays it is impossible to get the 350 hours multi...
From one extreme to the next.
Glad to have an FAA ATP.
Commercial night flights require a twin.
Most companies don't operate twins because customers don't pay for it.
Instruction might be a way but the night rating is not included in the basic PPL and at only about 30 new CPLs a year amongst lots of ATO getting 100 hours night is a lengthy process.
These EU resgs a real nightmare. In the days before JAR all one needed to get an ATP was 900 hours total and a part 29 type rating.
900 hours robbie, a BK117 rating and they blew an ATP up your arse.
Nowadays it is impossible to get the 350 hours multi...
From one extreme to the next.
Glad to have an FAA ATP.
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When I first got an ATPL(H) on the old UK national system, all I had to do was have 1200 hours total, 20 hours night plus there was a cross country requirement. You could do that all that in an R22, easier than driving a tram
You didn't even need ATPL(H) exams cos there weren't any, CPL(H) exams were fine
Meaningless of course but there you go
You didn't even need ATPL(H) exams cos there weren't any, CPL(H) exams were fine
Meaningless of course but there you go
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you can pretty much take off and go build your night time..
The bar for ATPL has been indeed raised quite a bit, also on the side of the theoretical exam, which realistically take at least one year to do. Overall I agree it sets a certain high standard, but it also puts up a high barrier. Nowadays it's not so easy to get a job requiring ATPL, because you have to work your way up with different jobs (first get the hours instructing, then you need a single engine turbine job to get turbine time, then you need to upgrade to multi engine to get into offshore, where you finally can log multi crew time).
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Pretty much all job postings from offshore companies require 250hrs ME nowadays (currently NHV, Inear, and Bristow always did). This has got to do with OGP requirements.
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Well, time on the right type is an equally impossible obstacle to getting a job. And I wouldn't count on a quick recovery of oil and gas, just watch the oil price.
The only thing which makes sense to invest now imho is to get the EASA ATPL theory done.
The only thing which makes sense to invest now imho is to get the EASA ATPL theory done.
OGP compliant operators require 500hrs MET for >5700kgs and 250hrs for <5700kgs. The requirement is multi-engine aircraft (i.e. aeroplanes are included), not on type.
Its all written down in Appendix 5A, OGP Aircraft Management Guidelines Report No 390. Google will find it for you.