Do you ever think about the Danger Involved?
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there are a lot of jobs more dangerous than this and they are not near as fun. Some of them I have done. My home town was small and it was a logging town. I don't know how long it would take for me to try to count the number of people that have been killed or seriously injured from logging accidents just in my home town.
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Afraid of flying Helicopters.
I think most for most of us this thought must have past through our minds at some stage or the other. "What am I doing here?" 
I think the only reason I find my self getting back into the aircraft on many occasions is due to the fact that most helicopter pilots like myself, love helicopter flying.
However been doing this for over 15 years and I still hope that the day I lose my "fear" of flying, I would be able to stop.
But at this stage with a healthy respect and love for helicopter flying it does not really matter wheather I am operating off-shore in a twin or giving instuction in a R22 at the end of the day I love and respect them all(Helicopters).
I think the only reason I find my self getting back into the aircraft on many occasions is due to the fact that most helicopter pilots like myself, love helicopter flying. However been doing this for over 15 years and I still hope that the day I lose my "fear" of flying, I would be able to stop.
But at this stage with a healthy respect and love for helicopter flying it does not really matter wheather I am operating off-shore in a twin or giving instuction in a R22 at the end of the day I love and respect them all(Helicopters).
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Only 2 things motivate people - pleasure and fear. Flying helicopters you get both all the time. The fear makes you pay attention and hopefully motivates you into gaining the most you can from knowledge and experience; in a fruitless effort to dispel fear. The pleasure, well without that why would you go through the fear? After 30 odd years of it I cannot think of any point in time where there was not at least some degree of fear. Keeps you sharp! Besides, its more worrisome coming home late from the pub :-))
How many of us are just plain ol' adrenaline addicts?
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As I look at it, it is our job to look at the danger/risk all the time. Once you get over the skill and knwoedge bits of what we do, we are (or should be) active risk managers. If not, we are not doing our bosses/pax/co-crew the service that we should.
Anyone who thinks what we do is anything but inherently hazardous needs to take a first principles look at the physics of helicopters and look at the accident stats. In a work arena there are fewer more hazardous jobs.
However, as long as the risks are balanced by benefits that work for us, we will continue to fly helicopters.
Anyone who thinks what we do is anything but inherently hazardous needs to take a first principles look at the physics of helicopters and look at the accident stats. In a work arena there are fewer more hazardous jobs.
However, as long as the risks are balanced by benefits that work for us, we will continue to fly helicopters.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Spare a thought for us private pilots. I am sometimes lucky if I can get to fly once a month and consequently can feel very uncomfortable at the controls knowing in the back of my mind how rusty I am. For example took wife and some friends on London sightseeing trip yesterday in strong winds and average vis and GPS(far too reliant on naturally) went on blink while departing airfield. Needless to say stress levels were higher than normal and I was glad to get it back on ground in one piece.
One motivation for me in considering flying commercially is that I love flying but don't want to kill myself doing it like the Steve Hislops of the world etc. whose lack of experience or rustiness is ultimately their undoing. Most accident stats I read seem to be private pilots flying in to the side of a hill in bad weather etc.
One motivation for me in considering flying commercially is that I love flying but don't want to kill myself doing it like the Steve Hislops of the world etc. whose lack of experience or rustiness is ultimately their undoing. Most accident stats I read seem to be private pilots flying in to the side of a hill in bad weather etc.
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very true, i was always sh*tting myself when i took friends up as a PPL. its only now as a 600+ hr instructor i feel comfortable and completely in control flying. although instructing is mostly being flown around while you talk and occasionally take control. when i do have to fly commercially the stress levels are much higher than when i am instructing.
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"i feel comfortable and completely in control flying."
I've studied not only NTSB reports, but the stories behind them, and many of the non-fatal incidents and accidents that occur during flight training.
I find it curious that you feel more comfortable with students than when doing business flying? When you're the only one on the controls, you don't have to worry about the multitude of stupid things that the student can do in an attempt on your life or the well-being of the helicopter. Just when you think you've seen it all, and most instructors think that thought too early, a student will come along and show you that you haven't. Hopefully it won't be in the form of a brisk forward cyclic input while teaching in the R22. . .
As an instructor, I don't think enough pilots worry about the dangers involved. I know the dangers, I've seen the accidents, known the people who were killed and I've seen the results. I've been flying for about 5 years now, and in that time, 5 helicopters I've flown were later involved in accidents, one of them fatal. Before I fly each day, I remind myself that I am the only thing standing between a normal flight and a catastrophe. I try very hard not to get comfortable flying with students, even the ones I've been flying with for a long time. Never relax, guard the controls, study hard, and instruct harder.
And the requirements and pressures for instructors do not occur only on that day's flights:
Being responsible for another pilots training can have long lasting consequences that may be negative or positive. For example, on the positive side, and instructor may instill a healthy respect for power lines and teach the student to be extremely vigilant. Conversely, they might show little a care for power lines. Years later when the once student pilot impacts power lines because he wasn't looking for them, whom might that be traced back to?
So we give the best training possible, with all of our effort, because the pilot we are training might one day depend on it.
But with regards to actual flying activities, I believe when one stops worrying about the risks, the odds of an accident are greatly increased. However there are some things, especially when flying with students, that we just can't control.
I agree with the previous posts about personal risk. For me, I've always known that my love for flight will be eclipsed by what is even more valuable for me in life. And at that point I will cease flying. It is great to see that many on the forums are still so wonderfully enthusiastic about flight, especially the younger generation, of which I am still a member of. Once again it comes down to personal values. Flying is awesome, but for me, to put it bluntly, the increased risk of death will, at some point, no longer be worth the reward. Enjoy it while it lasts!
I've studied not only NTSB reports, but the stories behind them, and many of the non-fatal incidents and accidents that occur during flight training.
I find it curious that you feel more comfortable with students than when doing business flying? When you're the only one on the controls, you don't have to worry about the multitude of stupid things that the student can do in an attempt on your life or the well-being of the helicopter. Just when you think you've seen it all, and most instructors think that thought too early, a student will come along and show you that you haven't. Hopefully it won't be in the form of a brisk forward cyclic input while teaching in the R22. . .
As an instructor, I don't think enough pilots worry about the dangers involved. I know the dangers, I've seen the accidents, known the people who were killed and I've seen the results. I've been flying for about 5 years now, and in that time, 5 helicopters I've flown were later involved in accidents, one of them fatal. Before I fly each day, I remind myself that I am the only thing standing between a normal flight and a catastrophe. I try very hard not to get comfortable flying with students, even the ones I've been flying with for a long time. Never relax, guard the controls, study hard, and instruct harder.
And the requirements and pressures for instructors do not occur only on that day's flights:
Being responsible for another pilots training can have long lasting consequences that may be negative or positive. For example, on the positive side, and instructor may instill a healthy respect for power lines and teach the student to be extremely vigilant. Conversely, they might show little a care for power lines. Years later when the once student pilot impacts power lines because he wasn't looking for them, whom might that be traced back to?
So we give the best training possible, with all of our effort, because the pilot we are training might one day depend on it.
But with regards to actual flying activities, I believe when one stops worrying about the risks, the odds of an accident are greatly increased. However there are some things, especially when flying with students, that we just can't control.
I agree with the previous posts about personal risk. For me, I've always known that my love for flight will be eclipsed by what is even more valuable for me in life. And at that point I will cease flying. It is great to see that many on the forums are still so wonderfully enthusiastic about flight, especially the younger generation, of which I am still a member of. Once again it comes down to personal values. Flying is awesome, but for me, to put it bluntly, the increased risk of death will, at some point, no longer be worth the reward. Enjoy it while it lasts!
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what i meant was that i find it less stressful because i dont have to do the flying, (flying the r22 is tiring - anyone will tell you that) i only have to come on the controls when i'm needed. with commercial students i hardly touch the controls at all, except to stop them overspeeding during an auto.
with brand new students its different, i am on the controls the whole time, as they havent a clue what they're doing until around 10-15 hours
i am more concerned about the aircraft failing than the student doing something stupid. when i look at the r22 after a flight i'm always suprised that an engine, a glass bubble, and a couple of pieces of metal going around can keep us in the air and in control
with brand new students its different, i am on the controls the whole time, as they havent a clue what they're doing until around 10-15 hours
i am more concerned about the aircraft failing than the student doing something stupid. when i look at the r22 after a flight i'm always suprised that an engine, a glass bubble, and a couple of pieces of metal going around can keep us in the air and in control
Join Date: Sep 2005
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MMAN -> KSAT
So i was on a XCountry, from Monterrey Mexico, to San Antonio Texas, its a 240 NM XCountry, i am a low time, Private Pilot, and i was flying with my wife and kid.
First i was concerned with fuel, cause i had to make a direct flight to KSAT, cause i had to go thru customs. My planning estimated 50 minutes of fuel remaining when arriving, but i encountered a bid of stronger head winds in a leg, so i started to worring and started doing more fuel economy settings and decisions and more precise flying.....
Uhh Night Fall, ofcourse, i am in the middle of no where and night might fall on me without city lights... So... Attitude Indicator set. Altimeter set, frictions a bit on. And dimed all lights in the GPS screens to get acostumed to night or sun set. I was planning on being in town by that time, but now i was 50 minutes away from the city lights.
Now fuel decision point came, and i started my mini check list.
Night start felling.... Fuel Check.. We are good.. Wow. We are great 1:45 minutes remaining and only 50 more monutes to go!".
Xponder Reply, they are getting me now.
Com Check "Houston center, this is XB-SLF. Com Check. XB-SLF Loud and clear". So we are good.
All instruments - Green.
Landing Lights - Tested and good.
Weather, well its starting to look weird.
"Flight Watch, this is XB-SLF, i am South of KSAT 76 NM out, i see some cloud cover, do you have any outlooks or forecasts for an hour from now at KSAT?"
"XB-SLF, this is flight watch, we have scattered clouds at 4000, 18 Knot G 20's winds from the east, and visibility is starting to deteriorate, one hour from now, the scattered clouds will be at 2,500 and the visibility would be aprox 4 miles. I have some IFR forecasted in two hours"... Ohh Ohh. That's not what the forecast looked when i took off. It said Clear of Clouds > 10 NM of visibility.
Great now i will be flying at night, with low clouds, no moon or stars, and no city lights... Darn It....
Ok, No problem, i have a couple of Airports near and all will be good. If worst gets to worst... Screw Customs, i'l talk with them in jail but i will be alive in the end
So.. To make a long story short, i finaly got to KSAT with just enough light to see the city lights in the horizon and make a picture of how they looked for orientation and saw the airport, went to land, made my destination and thought to my self :
- ITS GREAT TO BE HERE IN ONE PIECE!, I have to start training for instruments!. I have to make darn sure weather is good. I have to make customs in the port of entry instead of at a further away airport, so i will have lots of options. I Have to travel earlier in the sun light, when going Xcountry in a helicopter, or at least if i am not instrument rated.
So in the end.. Everytime i go flying i get the butterflies in my stomach. I see my airplane fellow pilots fly without even thinking, they are more relaxed.... But i can't let that feeling go... When i first started flying solo i thought that this might go away when i got a couple of hours... But now i am 160 hours and they get worst... So i think that this can be an advantage and a disadvantage. In one end i feel completely capable of handling bad situations... But i would rather never be in one. So i keep training and training and the butterflies are still there.
I just wanted to share my experience.
PS: Sorry for the spelling.
First i was concerned with fuel, cause i had to make a direct flight to KSAT, cause i had to go thru customs. My planning estimated 50 minutes of fuel remaining when arriving, but i encountered a bid of stronger head winds in a leg, so i started to worring and started doing more fuel economy settings and decisions and more precise flying.....
Uhh Night Fall, ofcourse, i am in the middle of no where and night might fall on me without city lights... So... Attitude Indicator set. Altimeter set, frictions a bit on. And dimed all lights in the GPS screens to get acostumed to night or sun set. I was planning on being in town by that time, but now i was 50 minutes away from the city lights.
Now fuel decision point came, and i started my mini check list.
Night start felling.... Fuel Check.. We are good.. Wow. We are great 1:45 minutes remaining and only 50 more monutes to go!".
Xponder Reply, they are getting me now.
Com Check "Houston center, this is XB-SLF. Com Check. XB-SLF Loud and clear". So we are good.
All instruments - Green.
Landing Lights - Tested and good.
Weather, well its starting to look weird.
"Flight Watch, this is XB-SLF, i am South of KSAT 76 NM out, i see some cloud cover, do you have any outlooks or forecasts for an hour from now at KSAT?"
"XB-SLF, this is flight watch, we have scattered clouds at 4000, 18 Knot G 20's winds from the east, and visibility is starting to deteriorate, one hour from now, the scattered clouds will be at 2,500 and the visibility would be aprox 4 miles. I have some IFR forecasted in two hours"... Ohh Ohh. That's not what the forecast looked when i took off. It said Clear of Clouds > 10 NM of visibility.
Great now i will be flying at night, with low clouds, no moon or stars, and no city lights... Darn It....
Ok, No problem, i have a couple of Airports near and all will be good. If worst gets to worst... Screw Customs, i'l talk with them in jail but i will be alive in the end
So.. To make a long story short, i finaly got to KSAT with just enough light to see the city lights in the horizon and make a picture of how they looked for orientation and saw the airport, went to land, made my destination and thought to my self :
- ITS GREAT TO BE HERE IN ONE PIECE!, I have to start training for instruments!. I have to make darn sure weather is good. I have to make customs in the port of entry instead of at a further away airport, so i will have lots of options. I Have to travel earlier in the sun light, when going Xcountry in a helicopter, or at least if i am not instrument rated.
So in the end.. Everytime i go flying i get the butterflies in my stomach. I see my airplane fellow pilots fly without even thinking, they are more relaxed.... But i can't let that feeling go... When i first started flying solo i thought that this might go away when i got a couple of hours... But now i am 160 hours and they get worst
... So i think that this can be an advantage and a disadvantage. In one end i feel completely capable of handling bad situations... But i would rather never be in one. So i keep training and training and the butterflies are still there.I just wanted to share my experience.
PS: Sorry for the spelling.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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G'day all,
This is an interesting thread and the comments made thus far all have some relevance in regards to my own personal experiences.
I'm quite sure that in the process of becoming a "competent" helicopter operator (borne out of good training, supervision and experience), we have all had our scarier moments. Let's be honest - when we first go solo or get our private licences, it's more a test of nerve than anything else. It's only looking back after a few years of flying consolidation that we fully comprehend how potentially incompetent we were.
I know exactly how chopperchav must have been feeling on his monthly trip - reminds me of the old adage, "better to be on the ground wishing you were up there than in the air wishing you were on the ground". Even now, if I haven't done much flying recently, I am acutely aware of my lack of recency and conduct myself accordingly.
My thoughts as to the dangers involved have indeed changed over the years. My own personal experiences, and the experiences of those around me have shaped and changed my approach to flying and my outlook to the risks involved.
I too was involved with the accident that What Ho Squiffy mentioned previously
and it changed my attitude towards flying in a very positive way but the cost incurred was enormous. I saw first hand just how dangerous flying helicopters can be but I also learned how important my role was in the prevention of an accident as a very junior boggy pilot.
Having said all that, the element of danger that is inherently present in flying helicopters is without a doubt part of the attraction of the job. It's not that I am an adrenaline junkie or have a death wish but rather that it is the possiblity that something could go a bit awry that keeps me on my toes. If I wanted a career that involved absolutely no possiblity of danger, I would have stuck with my previous occupation.
I wholeheartedly agree with the comments made about managing risk and the idea of giving the game away if / when the risks are perceived to outweigh the benefits. This was a big consideration in my leaving the military to work offshore. As one matures, one generally becomes more risk averse and I had decided that I had done all I wanted to in the ADF and it was time to do something a little less risky. I sleep far better as a result and enjoy my flying as much as ever.
Safe flying everyone,
Papa68
This is an interesting thread and the comments made thus far all have some relevance in regards to my own personal experiences.
I'm quite sure that in the process of becoming a "competent" helicopter operator (borne out of good training, supervision and experience), we have all had our scarier moments. Let's be honest - when we first go solo or get our private licences, it's more a test of nerve than anything else. It's only looking back after a few years of flying consolidation that we fully comprehend how potentially incompetent we were.
I know exactly how chopperchav must have been feeling on his monthly trip - reminds me of the old adage, "better to be on the ground wishing you were up there than in the air wishing you were on the ground". Even now, if I haven't done much flying recently, I am acutely aware of my lack of recency and conduct myself accordingly.
My thoughts as to the dangers involved have indeed changed over the years. My own personal experiences, and the experiences of those around me have shaped and changed my approach to flying and my outlook to the risks involved.
I too was involved with the accident that What Ho Squiffy mentioned previously
and it changed my attitude towards flying in a very positive way but the cost incurred was enormous. I saw first hand just how dangerous flying helicopters can be but I also learned how important my role was in the prevention of an accident as a very junior boggy pilot.Having said all that, the element of danger that is inherently present in flying helicopters is without a doubt part of the attraction of the job. It's not that I am an adrenaline junkie or have a death wish but rather that it is the possiblity that something could go a bit awry that keeps me on my toes. If I wanted a career that involved absolutely no possiblity of danger, I would have stuck with my previous occupation.
I wholeheartedly agree with the comments made about managing risk and the idea of giving the game away if / when the risks are perceived to outweigh the benefits. This was a big consideration in my leaving the military to work offshore. As one matures, one generally becomes more risk averse and I had decided that I had done all I wanted to in the ADF and it was time to do something a little less risky. I sleep far better as a result and enjoy my flying as much as ever.
Safe flying everyone,
Papa68
Hi all,
quiting the job because of the danger involved? Never thought about that.
Looking through the accident reports - more than 90 % of the accidents are due to pilot error.
Parts breaking - engines quitting - possible, but very very seldom - and mosty you still have a good chance to walk away - even if the A/C might be broken.
I had much more close misses on the way to or from the airport, thousands of hardly trained drivers with bad eyes, severe colds, overaged and so on underway, trying to kill me in my car....
In a helicopter it is my reponsibility to fly within the limits. And when I have to go beyond, its my decision, wheather its worth while - or not - knowing about the risks.
I guess, the more experiance you get and the older you get anyway, the smaler the dangerproblem becomes.
You have either already the experiance to avoid situations, which might kill you, or you have a way to get out unharmed - or you are old enough to say, no need for me to go in such a situation - while the young pilot, eager to see it all - not knowing about all the trapdoors - stumbels in.
Greetings
"Flying Bull"
quiting the job because of the danger involved? Never thought about that.
Looking through the accident reports - more than 90 % of the accidents are due to pilot error.
Parts breaking - engines quitting - possible, but very very seldom - and mosty you still have a good chance to walk away - even if the A/C might be broken.
I had much more close misses on the way to or from the airport, thousands of hardly trained drivers with bad eyes, severe colds, overaged and so on underway, trying to kill me in my car....
In a helicopter it is my reponsibility to fly within the limits. And when I have to go beyond, its my decision, wheather its worth while - or not - knowing about the risks.
I guess, the more experiance you get and the older you get anyway, the smaler the dangerproblem becomes.
You have either already the experiance to avoid situations, which might kill you, or you have a way to get out unharmed - or you are old enough to say, no need for me to go in such a situation - while the young pilot, eager to see it all - not knowing about all the trapdoors - stumbels in.
Greetings
"Flying Bull"
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Good Point
Its a good point you made Mr. Flying bull.
One thing i did not put in my earlier post is that i had never thought about quiting, because i really really love Helicopters. All i think is that i should be very carefull.
One thing i did not put in my earlier post is that i had never thought about quiting, because i really really love Helicopters. All i think is that i should be very carefull.
