Sad incident at Palamar today
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As someone who was an airfield firefighter prior to becoming a helicopter pilot:
No way in hell would I have tried to physically block the aircraft with an appliance (armoured or not!). [...] I find the criticism of the fire-crews quite harsh and unfair - this was a one-in-a-billion event that they were faced with.
No way in hell would I have tried to physically block the aircraft with an appliance (armoured or not!). [...] I find the criticism of the fire-crews quite harsh and unfair - this was a one-in-a-billion event that they were faced with.
The problem here is that it was already on it's belly (maybe still part of the landing gear?) so the rotor is close to the ground, and it sure seemed to me that it could have tipped over at any point. Anyone under that disk would be asking to be decapitated.
I don't think there is any way you could drown that engine - you could only hit it for a fraction of a second on each rotation - I'd be surprised if you could kill an engine with that amount of water.
It sucks to say nothing could have been done, but realistically, I don't think there is anything that could have been done that wouldn't have risked making the situation much worse than it already was.
As for the cause - one of the videos I looked at seemed like only half the skid was on the dolly, so if that was the case, as soon as the pilot lowered collective it would roll back onto the tailboom which is exactly what it looks like happened. He didn't need to over control the cyclic to cause this - I think once he lowered collective without being sure he was on the dolly he sealed his fate. And I agree with the people that said: "if it was unchocked, why wouldn't you just land on the ramp?". There are the risks we can't control, and the risks we can, and that's one you definitely can control.
And really, landing on a dolly, unchocked or not, why would you ever commit to the landing until you were sure the skids were properly positioned, and even then, you need to take your time lowering collective so that you can abort the landing at any point. It sure looked like a rookie mistake to me. (I used to fly a 206 off a small dolly and it definitely pays to take your time).
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14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Wednesday, November 18, 2015 in Carlsbad, CA
Aircraft: AIRBUS HELICOPTERS AS350B3E, registration: N711BE
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. NTSB investigators either traveled in support of this investigation or conducted a significant amount of investigative work without any travel, and used data obtained from various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.
On November 18, 2015, about 1624 Pacific standard time, an Airbus Helicopters AS350B3E, N711BE, departed controlled flight while landing on a moveable helipad at Mc Clellan-Palomar Airport, Carlsbad, California. The pilot, who was the owner, was operating the helicopter under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The private pilot and private pilot-rated passenger were fatally injured; the helicopter sustained substantial damage. The local personal flight departed Carlsbad at 1411. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed.
The entire accident sequence was captured on airport security cameras and the mobile phone cameras of multiple witnesses.
The helicopter departed earlier in the day from the east end of the Premier Jet fixed base operator (FBO) ramp, which was located midfield on the south side of runway 6/24. After departure, line crew moved the helipad to the west end of the ramp.
Upon returning, the helicopter approached the airport from the northeast and was cleared to land on runway 24. It descended to midfield, turned left, and approached the ramp in a low hover via taxiway A3. The helicopter then followed taxiway A and began an approach to the helipad from the east and into the direction of the sun. The helicopter then landed short of the helipad, with the center of its skids making contact with the pad's front edge. The helicopter immediately rocked back and its tailskid struck the ground. The helicopter then began a series of back and forth oscillations, and the helipad broke free from the rear left chock, rotated to the right, and pivoted around its front right wheel. The helicopter spun with the helipad for the first quarter of the turn, and then rapidly climbed and rotated 270 degrees to the right. The helipad came to rest to the north, having revolved 180 degrees, and about 50 seconds later the helicopter landed on the tarmac east of the helipad, while partially straddling taxiway A and the ramp at a 45-degree angle.
For the next 2 1/2 minutes line crew re-secured the helipad, installing chocks on three of the four wheels. The helicopter then repositioned for an approach to the helipad from the west. During the next 4 1/2 minutes the helicopter made three landing attempts, getting to within 5 to 20 ft of the helipad. A video of the final landing attempt was captured by a witness, who was located about 130 ft south. He had observed the other landing attempts and was concerned that the helicopter may crash, so positioned himself behind a car at the corner of the FBO's hangar.
The video revealed that the helicopter again landed short of the pad, similar to the first landing attempt, rocking back and forth twice onto its tailskid. After the final strike, the helicopter pitched violently forward and out of view behind the hangar. Security cameras revealed that from here the helicopter spun 180 degrees to the left, and after reaching a 45-degree nose up attitude, the aft tailrotor and vertical stabilizer assembly struck the ground and separated. The helicopter bounced and rotated another 360 degrees before landing hard on its left side. Once on the ground, the main rotor blades and cabin continued to spin with the engine still running. The helicopter continued spinning for the next 5 minutes and 10 seconds while slowly sliding about 530 ft east along the ramp. The tailboom and horizontal stabilizer then separated and the helicopter rolled onto its side, shedding the main rotor blades. The engine continued operating for another 30 seconds while fire crew doused the helicopter. White smoke billowed from the engine's exhaust after the helicopter came to rest, but there was no indication of fire.
The pilot purchased the helicopter on October 29, 2015, but had flown demonstration and familiarization flights in it since September 20. According to the helicopter's maintenance records, those flights totaled about 8.8 hours, and were all conducted with a certified flight instructor present. He received an additional 2 hours of flight training on November 13.
According to friends and flight instructors who had flown with the pilot, he had previously owned a Bell 407, and the accident flight was the first he had flown in the AS350 series without a professional pilot present.
Accident occurred Wednesday, November 18, 2015 in Carlsbad, CA
Aircraft: AIRBUS HELICOPTERS AS350B3E, registration: N711BE
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. NTSB investigators either traveled in support of this investigation or conducted a significant amount of investigative work without any travel, and used data obtained from various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.
On November 18, 2015, about 1624 Pacific standard time, an Airbus Helicopters AS350B3E, N711BE, departed controlled flight while landing on a moveable helipad at Mc Clellan-Palomar Airport, Carlsbad, California. The pilot, who was the owner, was operating the helicopter under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The private pilot and private pilot-rated passenger were fatally injured; the helicopter sustained substantial damage. The local personal flight departed Carlsbad at 1411. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed.
The entire accident sequence was captured on airport security cameras and the mobile phone cameras of multiple witnesses.
The helicopter departed earlier in the day from the east end of the Premier Jet fixed base operator (FBO) ramp, which was located midfield on the south side of runway 6/24. After departure, line crew moved the helipad to the west end of the ramp.
Upon returning, the helicopter approached the airport from the northeast and was cleared to land on runway 24. It descended to midfield, turned left, and approached the ramp in a low hover via taxiway A3. The helicopter then followed taxiway A and began an approach to the helipad from the east and into the direction of the sun. The helicopter then landed short of the helipad, with the center of its skids making contact with the pad's front edge. The helicopter immediately rocked back and its tailskid struck the ground. The helicopter then began a series of back and forth oscillations, and the helipad broke free from the rear left chock, rotated to the right, and pivoted around its front right wheel. The helicopter spun with the helipad for the first quarter of the turn, and then rapidly climbed and rotated 270 degrees to the right. The helipad came to rest to the north, having revolved 180 degrees, and about 50 seconds later the helicopter landed on the tarmac east of the helipad, while partially straddling taxiway A and the ramp at a 45-degree angle.
For the next 2 1/2 minutes line crew re-secured the helipad, installing chocks on three of the four wheels. The helicopter then repositioned for an approach to the helipad from the west. During the next 4 1/2 minutes the helicopter made three landing attempts, getting to within 5 to 20 ft of the helipad. A video of the final landing attempt was captured by a witness, who was located about 130 ft south. He had observed the other landing attempts and was concerned that the helicopter may crash, so positioned himself behind a car at the corner of the FBO's hangar.
The video revealed that the helicopter again landed short of the pad, similar to the first landing attempt, rocking back and forth twice onto its tailskid. After the final strike, the helicopter pitched violently forward and out of view behind the hangar. Security cameras revealed that from here the helicopter spun 180 degrees to the left, and after reaching a 45-degree nose up attitude, the aft tailrotor and vertical stabilizer assembly struck the ground and separated. The helicopter bounced and rotated another 360 degrees before landing hard on its left side. Once on the ground, the main rotor blades and cabin continued to spin with the engine still running. The helicopter continued spinning for the next 5 minutes and 10 seconds while slowly sliding about 530 ft east along the ramp. The tailboom and horizontal stabilizer then separated and the helicopter rolled onto its side, shedding the main rotor blades. The engine continued operating for another 30 seconds while fire crew doused the helicopter. White smoke billowed from the engine's exhaust after the helicopter came to rest, but there was no indication of fire.
The pilot purchased the helicopter on October 29, 2015, but had flown demonstration and familiarization flights in it since September 20. According to the helicopter's maintenance records, those flights totaled about 8.8 hours, and were all conducted with a certified flight instructor present. He received an additional 2 hours of flight training on November 13.
According to friends and flight instructors who had flown with the pilot, he had previously owned a Bell 407, and the accident flight was the first he had flown in the AS350 series without a professional pilot present.
A video of the final landing attempt was captured by a witness, who was located about 130 ft south. He had observed the other landing attempts and was concerned that the helicopter may crash, so positioned himself behind a car at the corner of the FBO's hangar.
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So, contrary to claims made earlier in this thread, there was no post-event fire. And the helipad was chocked at the time of the final landing attempt.
Evil Twin -- Quite. The full timeline described in the report, including the sequence of events prior to the videos, makes for painful reading.
Evil Twin -- Quite. The full timeline described in the report, including the sequence of events prior to the videos, makes for painful reading.
Turbo....those "claims" of Fire were made based upon news reports "Quoting Authorities"....as was stated at the time of the post.
I give as much credence to FAA Preliminary Reports as I do News Reports....and you would too if you had much experience with them.
Wait for the full report before you hang your hat on what is reported being exactly accurate.
This one may be closer to fact than some as they apparently had the benefit of the Airport Surveillance Video which would have given them a good view of the entire sequence.
I shall wait to read of the reporting about the state of the Air Frame and any comments it will have re fire.
I think we can accept there was no catastrophic fire as we have seen in so many Astar Crashes. At this point we do not know if this particular aircraft had the standard or crashworthy fuel Tank installed do we?
I give as much credence to FAA Preliminary Reports as I do News Reports....and you would too if you had much experience with them.
Wait for the full report before you hang your hat on what is reported being exactly accurate.
This one may be closer to fact than some as they apparently had the benefit of the Airport Surveillance Video which would have given them a good view of the entire sequence.
I shall wait to read of the reporting about the state of the Air Frame and any comments it will have re fire.
I think we can accept there was no catastrophic fire as we have seen in so many Astar Crashes. At this point we do not know if this particular aircraft had the standard or crashworthy fuel Tank installed do we?
Thread Starter
The latest:
NTSB: Copter missed helipad 4 times before fatal crash | SanDiegoUnionTribune.com
NTSB: Copter missed helipad 4 times before fatal crash | SanDiegoUnionTribune.com
CARLSBAD — A helicopter pilot made repeated attempts to land at a Carlsbad airport last month before the aircraft spun out of control and crashed, killing him and a passenger, a federal report said.
The National Transportation Safety Board found that the helicopter ultimately missed the portable helipad, rocked wildly back and forth several times, spun in place for more than five minutes, and broke off the tail before being enveloped in a cloud of smoke.
Bruce Erickson, 65, of Rancho Santa Fe, had piloted the aircraft several times since September, but always before with a professional pilot present, the National Transportation Safety Board said in a preliminary report on the accident.
Erickson was president of American Bank in Montana and spent part of his time in Bozeman.
His passenger on Nov. 18 was Wayne Lewis, 60, of Cardiff by the Sea, a Realtor who was rated as a private pilot, not a professional, the NTSB said.
Erickson bought the Airbus helicopter on Oct. 29, the report said.
The entire sequence of events leading up to the disaster, including at least four landing attempts on the raised helipad, were caught on airport security cameras and several witnesses’ cellphone cameras.
The report said Erickson and Lewis took off from McClellan-Palomar Airport about 2:11 p.m. in clear weather. They returned a little more than two hours later and started to land at 4:24 p.m. on a helipad on a ramp in front of Premier Jet hangars.
A ground crew had rolled the wheeled helipad to the west end of the ramp. The helicopter approached the airport from the northeast, turned left and approached the ramp in a low hover. It approached the helipad from the east, facing the sun, and landed short.
The center of the skids touched the pad’s front edge, sending the helicopter “in a series of back-and-forth oscillations,” with its tail skid striking the ground, the report said. The impacts knocked the helipad loose from one of the chocks that was holding a wheel in place.
The pad began to spin on one front wheel, then the helicopter also began to spin. The copter then climbed, rotated, and 50 seconds later landed partly on the ramp at a 45-degree angle.
Crewmen re-secured the helipad by installing chocks on three of the four wheels. The pilot lifted off and approached the pad from the west this time. He made three more landing attempts in the next four and a half minutes, getting within five to 20 feet of the pad each time.
On the last approach, caught on video by a witness who stood behind a car for safety, the helicopter landed short of the pad again. The aircraft spun 180 degrees to the left as the nose went up and the tail rotor hit the ground and broke off.
The helicopter bounced, completely rotated once, then landed hard on its left side.
“Once on the ground, the main rotor blades and cabin continued to spin wih the engine still running. The helicopter continued spinning for the next 5 minutes and 10 seconds while slowly sliding about 530 feet east along the ramp,” the report said.
The tail boom, horizontal stabilizer and main rotor blades snapped off. The engine operated for 30 more seconds while fire crews doused the aircraft. White smoke billowed from the engine exhaust, but the craft did not catch fire, the report said.
By the time rescuers got to the helicopter cabin, the men inside were dead.
The NTSB said Erickson had flown demonstration and familiarization flights in that helicopter totaling about 8.8 hours since Sept. 20. All those flights were conducted with a certified flight instructor present. He had two additional hours of flight training on Nov. 13.
Friends and instructors told investigators that although Erickson had previously owned a Bell 407 helicopter, his final flight in the Airbus was his first time flying a helicopter one without a professional pilot present.
The National Transportation Safety Board found that the helicopter ultimately missed the portable helipad, rocked wildly back and forth several times, spun in place for more than five minutes, and broke off the tail before being enveloped in a cloud of smoke.
Bruce Erickson, 65, of Rancho Santa Fe, had piloted the aircraft several times since September, but always before with a professional pilot present, the National Transportation Safety Board said in a preliminary report on the accident.
Erickson was president of American Bank in Montana and spent part of his time in Bozeman.
His passenger on Nov. 18 was Wayne Lewis, 60, of Cardiff by the Sea, a Realtor who was rated as a private pilot, not a professional, the NTSB said.
Erickson bought the Airbus helicopter on Oct. 29, the report said.
The entire sequence of events leading up to the disaster, including at least four landing attempts on the raised helipad, were caught on airport security cameras and several witnesses’ cellphone cameras.
The report said Erickson and Lewis took off from McClellan-Palomar Airport about 2:11 p.m. in clear weather. They returned a little more than two hours later and started to land at 4:24 p.m. on a helipad on a ramp in front of Premier Jet hangars.
A ground crew had rolled the wheeled helipad to the west end of the ramp. The helicopter approached the airport from the northeast, turned left and approached the ramp in a low hover. It approached the helipad from the east, facing the sun, and landed short.
The center of the skids touched the pad’s front edge, sending the helicopter “in a series of back-and-forth oscillations,” with its tail skid striking the ground, the report said. The impacts knocked the helipad loose from one of the chocks that was holding a wheel in place.
The pad began to spin on one front wheel, then the helicopter also began to spin. The copter then climbed, rotated, and 50 seconds later landed partly on the ramp at a 45-degree angle.
Crewmen re-secured the helipad by installing chocks on three of the four wheels. The pilot lifted off and approached the pad from the west this time. He made three more landing attempts in the next four and a half minutes, getting within five to 20 feet of the pad each time.
On the last approach, caught on video by a witness who stood behind a car for safety, the helicopter landed short of the pad again. The aircraft spun 180 degrees to the left as the nose went up and the tail rotor hit the ground and broke off.
The helicopter bounced, completely rotated once, then landed hard on its left side.
“Once on the ground, the main rotor blades and cabin continued to spin wih the engine still running. The helicopter continued spinning for the next 5 minutes and 10 seconds while slowly sliding about 530 feet east along the ramp,” the report said.
The tail boom, horizontal stabilizer and main rotor blades snapped off. The engine operated for 30 more seconds while fire crews doused the aircraft. White smoke billowed from the engine exhaust, but the craft did not catch fire, the report said.
By the time rescuers got to the helicopter cabin, the men inside were dead.
The NTSB said Erickson had flown demonstration and familiarization flights in that helicopter totaling about 8.8 hours since Sept. 20. All those flights were conducted with a certified flight instructor present. He had two additional hours of flight training on Nov. 13.
Friends and instructors told investigators that although Erickson had previously owned a Bell 407 helicopter, his final flight in the Airbus was his first time flying a helicopter one without a professional pilot present.
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Pilot ego over ability? What a terribly sad waste of two lives.
According to friends and flight instructors who had flown with the pilot, he had previously owned a Bell 407, and the accident flight was the first he had flown in the AS350 series without a professional pilot present.
But sadly, pretty close to what I had expected....
SAS,
In the video's you can clearly see fire while it's spinning, but it didn't fire-ball in the end. Only guessing that the drain would be pissing a little amount, but most likely no tank-rupture.
Shy,
Pilot ego over ability?
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Plus a few others.. 
ego over ability
The guy was new to type but apparently had done substantial type training and (I surmise) was trying to carry out a procedure quite familiar on his previous type, albeit without the benefit of the comprehensive type training we'd get making that change in Europe. But he wasn't in Europe and different rules apply.
He's imagine he was perfectly capable of landing on a dolly as he had always been, wouldn't he? Is that so unreasonable? It might , in retrospect, prove to have been a bit ambitious to keep trying after the first scare but "ego over..."? That's probably not fair.
The position of skids on a dolly from the pilot's perspective is vastly different between a Bell206 (my experience) and a Squirrel and knowing Bells the family resemblance is likely to be very similar vis a vis pilot's position relative to skids. Even after years on the 355 I found placing the skids on a dolly invisible behind behind me which I rarely had to do a real challenge whereas on the Bell it was a doddle because you could actually see the damn thing.
Poor guy, I feel for him, and don't think hip-shooting accusations of "ego" are at all fair. Lack of experience probably, but to blame it on his ego seems to me, well, based on an excess of someone else's ego if you see what I mean.
I'd call it unfamiliarity. OK, he probably should have recognised he was out of his depth but failure to act on that can be down to many things beyond "ego". Determination, for instance. Or inexperience at trying a familiar manoeuvre in an unfamiliar type. From the description I feel he simply tried to land the Squirrel as he would have dome a Bell and came unstuck. It looks so obvious to me that he was using a Bell sight picture on that dolly. What else would you expect him to do if he hadn't been shown how, which I guess will prove to be the case?
Cut the poor bugger some slack?
Last edited by Wageslave; 2nd Dec 2015 at 21:33.
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Cut the poor bugger some slack?
I spent three years landing an AS355 on a dolly, sometimes on an unlit helipad, so I do appreciate the difficulty.
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That was a new AS-350BE (Airbus) that has a twist grip throttle that can bring the engine to idle and stop such rotation. It appears that full Nr was in effect the whole ride and that the pilot was keeping it level with cyclic (small movements and centered). All new production AStars have a poor mans CVR/FDR factory installed (Aperro) that could/should tell the story. Dollies are a high risk convenience with bad risk/reward ratios. Dollies take up hangar space, inhibit inspection, and can be deadly with a control or power problem on TO or landing.Bird comes with ground handling wheels, stick em on and push. Dolly caused this accident. Astars are the most difficult bird to put on dolly pads as PIC sits way forward of skids and often will land short if not trained properly. AS350 will ground resonance easily and has features to mitigate this tendency but a bouncy pad can negate the engineering. I fly a 2B1 Astar from a small pad for the last 5 years and know it is a bad idea but can't fight an ignorant city hall (management).
