Sad incident at Palamar today
 

Couple of rumors on the street----the most credible is he was landing on a dolly and missed, cut the TR off and started spinning.

2 dead----RIP

I saw this on Facebook from another angle, the rate of spinning was amazing. Don't know why he couldn't hack an engine.

Maybe the occupants had been knocked unconscious? Do you have a link for the other video, Nigel?

The emergency services must have felt quite helpless, unable to get closer and risk serious injury from flying blades, etc :( Last time anything similar the firies spent ages smothering the intake with foam, but it took a lot to put the engine out. Pilot was unconscious, Wessex on the tie down pad at Culdrose.

The pilot is sat considerably forward of the mast and therefore "enjoys" a ride on a centrifuge. Thrown forward and sideways, with a G loading dependent on the rate of spin and the arm, he may not have been conscious after the initial contact between head / airframe.


As to what to do: would it be possible to use the fire truck to soak the engines and cause a flameout? Likely to be difficult enough with the machine stationary but would have the side effect of reducing fire risk.

If he 'missed' the trolley landing then it's another reminder to those who create and use trolleys 'just' big enough to land upon without much room for error :hmm:

Looks like a Squirrel with difficult to reach throttle lever.

@Johan R81
Right question, fire truck had enough time to cover whole "carousel" with foam. Another lesson learned hard way.
RIP for the souls on board...

At about a third of the way through, I thought for a moment that fuel was escaping and had been ignited and was about to fireball.

Nonetheless, I would suggest the RFFS has some deep soul searching to do regarding their (lack of) intervention in this instance.
It is blatantly obvious the aircrew are totally incapacitated and could do nothing.
A fire lance with a 50yd throw @ 400lts a minute would stop that spin immediately or at the very least put the engine(s) out.

Wouldn't want to be the fire chief that shift. :mad:

They have probably been trained to wait for movement to stop before exposing themselves to risk - sadly this is a case where they really should have thought past that training.

TC

Not sure that would stop it spinning would have to hit the tail or what is left of it in one place and keep it there. Even then there is some serious momentum there and not sure water would stop that !!!
Just hope they were out within seconds of that spin:eek:

Ultimately, was there a fire? Both videos end with a lot of jet fuel vapour escaping but no ignition that I can see, though the caption appears to claim a fire did occur.


If so then with fire crews attending considerably before any fire there must be questions to answer.

The last big multi wheel drive fire tender I was stood against was literally built like a tank with armoured glass and big roll bars all around the cab front and side area, could the driver not have rammed it hard to break the blades off, I know spinning blade have huge inertia with them, but could that sort of attack/rescue have worked. or is it fear of the unknown that would have held people back..
But what a very sad outcome, simply though missing the dolly. poor chaps!,

None of the rescue services were helicopter pilots. The aircraft was spinning; they would not have known anything about the theory of tail rotors or torque reaction. To them it was an aircraft spinning out of control and their only option was to wait until either the pilot recovered it or it crashed.

They were there at the time; not sitting in a chair watching the video.

This says "Training Accident" - no mention of a dolly. "Practicing landing"


Two killed in helicopter crash at Palomar Airport identified - CBS News 8 - San Diego, CA News Station - KFMB Channel 8


Be aware that this article names the crew

Farest: They don't need to know torque theory. They do know that suffocating engine intakes - stops engines - stops the drive to the rotorblades.

I have a team of RFFS under me and they are stunned that these guys stood there and watched two pilots die.

John81: I notice:
.

Interesting. I wonder what they would make of an Apache / S92??

Evidence of extraterritorial visitation to our backwater of the Solar System.


But then, that's just the press

I find that video terribly sad.
It must be one of the longest helicopter accidents ever. :(

I don't understand the AS350. If the collective is at bottom, would that not yield "flat pitch" and thus prevent torque reaction?
What am I missing (I did notice the lack of a tail boom).

Same thing happened a while back in Dubai but they were lucky to survive...
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/532...ash-dubai.html

I spoke to a Norwegian crew many many moons ago who hit cables crossing a Fjord. They impacted at the base of the tail cone just at the base of the upstrut supporting the entire TRGB section.

Within seconds, they recalled watching the TRGB section pass them down the side of the a/c before they were flung violently to one side of the cockpit as the a/c started spinning. They eventually managed to perform some semblance of borderline stability whilst still spinning slowly, in full EOL mode onto the water. Both survived. The co-pilot became unconscious almost the moment the spin established itself, but it was helped with him hitting the windscreen side strut with his head.
These AStar guys must have become unconscious within seconds and left some pitch on the blades for the helo to rotate so violently. They surely couldn't throttle back - even to FI never mind shut off.

I wouldnt have backed a hard object into that threshing machine for fear of an explosion. I would have expected my team to have dumped thousands of litres of foam at 80psi onto the cab and suffocated the engine intake of air.

The more I think about it, the more I think the fire crew were derelict in their duty.
What a sad waste of life.

A haunting video. RiP.