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Save a Sea King!

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Save a Sea King!

Old 4th Sep 2015, 19:20
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Save a Sea King!

"The Helicopter Museum needs MoD to allocate a SAR Sea King to recognise the RAF SAR history.Precedent set with Moravia but DSA now says all the rest to be sold to a contractor for disposal. We want MoD to play fair with good causes ....we have the money and the transport so ideas and support welcome"

If you can help the museum contact me.
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Old 4th Sep 2015, 21:09
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Originally Posted by heli1 View Post
"The Helicopter Museum needs MoD to allocate a SAR Sea King to recognise the RAF SAR history.
Whilst a worthwhile project, to only recognise RAF SAR with a Sea King is not going to get 100% support from the tens of thousands of ground and air crew who operated the dark grey versions, and even less from the 771NAS SAR crews.

A duplicate of the dual operator painted Sea King they had in Falmouth National Maritime Museum would garner far more support, I would suggest

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Old 5th Sep 2015, 08:37
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Understood John and personally I would prefer a Navy SAR cab but that is being taken care of by the FAA Museum.Locally it was the RAF who have always covered most of the Bristol Channel coastline and the yellow cabs are most familiar to people.
Rest assured the Navy is well represented in the collection and the eventual SAR display will cover their activities too.
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 09:01
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Most of the Bristol Channel???????? Who else covered any part (other than job-poaching or stand-ins)????

And why would you prefer a Navy SAR cab for the museum rather than one from the major players in UK SAR (6 flights vs 2)?
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 10:15
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Most of the Bristol Channel???????? Who else covered any part (other than job-poaching or stand-ins)????
Crab, Please leave your prejudices at home and put your support behind the valiant efforts of this thread. I visited that dual-themed cockpit in March at H.M.S. Sultan (the old Fleetlands) and she deserves to not go to the breakers,

We ALL worked hard, from BOTH services, to make the Bristol Channel a safe place to aviate or go sailing ... 771 in the Wessex from Culdrose and the Chivenor Seaking.

If you want to turn everything into conflict go register as a politician.
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 11:25
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I must correct Crab for you Jerry - it was 9 RAF flts versus 2 RN for most of the service SAR years - just saying
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 11:49
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Incorrect.

For starters, 771 and 819 were not flights. They were Squadrons with large numbers of aircraft, unlike RAF SAR flights.

This of course also ignores Lee SAR, and most importantly the SAR flight on the back of every Warship in the RN worldwide.

The fact that the RAF never saw most of the SAR jobs does not mean they didn't happen..
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 16:16
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Heli,
try and obtain the contact details of the disposal contractor from the DSA. They may 'sell' you one at a bargain price?
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 16:33
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Heli1,
Best of luck with your efforts to acquire a yellow Sea King for your establishment and if Morayvia can help in any way you know how to get in touch. Judging by the usual inter service rivalry on this site maybe you need two Sea Kings to satisfy both camps but I don't think the cartoon-like airframe as pictured above is a fitting tribute unless you want something for the kids to play on.
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 16:56
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The Helicopter Museum will be very willing to display a Navy and an RAF Sea King if people would like to stump up the extra money.Some of the 771 cabs certainly have an interesting and long history ,having served in various guises for many years..but commercial sense unfortunately dictates a yellow one is the better bet for the tourists the museum relies on,especially with the FAMuseum only an hour away.
So don't fall out guys...happy to see if we can add both but overcoming MoD bureaucracy remains the same!
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 18:26
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Well that was all too easy - they clearly don't do banter in the RN.

Try this - you can conclude from the responses that it took the RN a whole Sqn to do what the RAF did with a flight...... and a whole ship's company was required to support one non-sar dedicated aircraft on the back of a grey funnel liner.

Out of interest how many of those aircraft on the back of the boats had fully trained SAR rearcrew ?

All that pompous self-belief in the 'everyone has a SAR capability' sadly lost you a crew in the English Channel a few years ago launching an inappropriately trained crew into poor weather for a MOB. - That bit wasn't banter btw.
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 19:43
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All that pompous self-belief in the 'everyone has a SAR capability' sadly lost you a crew in the English Channel a few years ago launching an inappropriately trained crew into poor weather for a MOB.
I'm outta here. This is neither an adult, decent nor appropriate way to refer to fellow aviators trying to save a life.
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 21:43
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Crab

All that pompous self-belief in the 'everyone has a SAR capability' sadly lost you a crew in the English Channel a few years ago launching an inappropriately trained crew into poor weather for a MOB. - That bit wasn't banter btw.
You have stooped to a low I didn't think even you could achieve.

The word pompous however is very apt and I think it suits you very well. Get a grip
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 22:10
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Goodness: all I did was suggest an equal recognition of the joint services contribution to both the use of the Sea King over the past 45 years, and the equal contribution to SAR by the Sea King.

Handbags at dawn: methinks that some here seem determined to be a little bit precious
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 00:39
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pompous self-belief etc
Crab, I have long respected many of your views, although you do make a habit of including variances that reduce that overall support! I'm afraid your comment above puts you straight into the League of Arrogant Idiots, frequently afflicting others of your hue. It's a shame when you besmirch the noble deeds and can-do heroism of those in a 1940s service, with the pompous self-belief of some typical Crabs from 40-50 years later.

Those who go down to the sea in ships, particularly those who fly from such platforms, are there as both a main attack system and/or a significant part of the defence shield. That they operate afloat also live by the rules of the sea, foremost, whilst using the tools of the air to make every attempt to save their fellow seafarers, should the need arise. Not being SAR "specialists", as you so pompously imply, should result in more recognition when they really put their lives on the line, rather than attract your criticism - most often, they don't have the luxury of a slow reaction time or risk assessment, as there's no-one mid ocean but them.
There are many more examples of airborne life saving than tragedy, but occasionally it doesn't work out, despite best efforts being made in the traditions of a service that has a significantly longer heritage than some others.

Greater balance, and a little humility, would go a long way to securing appropriate recognition of an airframe, of whatever colour, in whatever place, that was part of my formative aviating career both in peace & war. A more forgiving and dependable machine, despite numerous foibles, would have been difficult to find and those who flew them will remain forever in their debt, I'd suggest?
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 06:10
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I have tried to write a response to that that won't get moderated.

Can't do it.
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 06:26
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Let's be clear - I have the greatest respect for anyone suddenly forced into a situation they are not properly or regularly trained for who achieves the aim and there have been many occasions where flying skill and bravery have overcome the odds - that goes for everyone.

However, how many pilots would launch in fog in a single pilot aircraft to search for a MOB (who had no lifejacket or immersion suit) with no appropriate sensors other than the Mk 1 eyeball? And how many commanders would allow their aviation asset to launch in that manner given the probability of detection was zero?

My actual point is that one of the vital things drummed into RAF SAR pilots (and presumably other SAR practitioners) is the recognition of when to say NO to a SAROP, regardless of the red mist, regardless of the pressure (both externally and internally applied).

I have had the 'SAR is a secondary role and anyone can do it' guff rammed down my throat many times on these pages and it is always by those who haven't done much (or any) SAR. If you are not used to balancing the risk/reward elements when presented with an urgent task and that task greatly exceeds your previous experience then caution has to be the watchword.

Good luck with acquiring the Sea King Heli 1, the dual painted one at Falmouth actually looks quite good so that might be the way to go if you get one.
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 06:44
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Crab

The aircraft Captain of the Lynx you mention was a fully trained ex 819 SAR Captain from his Seaking days.

He was also a great bloke and friend of mine from my course Seaking training.

To cherry pick an accident to try to make a point is [email protected]

I will resist the temptation to go through fatal yellow Seaking accidents to point out that RAF make mistakes despite their much vaunted SAR training.
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 08:50
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Just to bring things up to date the Sea King(XV663) that was on show at the Nat Maritime Museum Falmouth and then stored at Gosport as JG found is now on show along with a line up of other FAA SAR airframes in Hall 1 at the Fleet Air Arm Museum, its been a great favourite as it was with the public at Falmouth.
Its currently on loan from the MOD so what it's long term future is I could not say.
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 21:39
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Amazing. A fairly innocuous and well-meaning post gets morphed into (yet another) Yellow v Grey willy-waving competition by the usual suspects. Its all going to be history very soon so a bit of mutual respect for those that have tried their best down the years wouldn't go amiss.
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