North Sea strike?
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HeliHub North Sea pilots consider strike action
I can assure you that the downturn has hit the Dancopter pilots harder than most, or probably more than any other operator. Until recently there were 70 pilots employed in Dancopter, and later this year the aim will be less than 25 pilots left, to fly for the Maersk Oil and Gas contract with the 225. That is 1/3 left, and it is not because the guys or the company mishandled the job or the Shell contract.
Some have been lucky to find jobs elsewhere, ad hoc, temporary employment contracts etc. with terms and conditions not by near what they use to have. Some are without a job, and looking into a job market more dry than what is has been for decades. Bristow are letting go of 66 pilots, CHC Helicopterservice 19, so it will take years and 80-100$/barrel until we are back to what we had until last year for the pilots employed - I believe that the T&Cs we use to have, or a few still have, will go shortly and be gone forever.
I can assure you that the downturn has hit the Dancopter pilots harder than most, or probably more than any other operator. Until recently there were 70 pilots employed in Dancopter, and later this year the aim will be less than 25 pilots left, to fly for the Maersk Oil and Gas contract with the 225. That is 1/3 left, and it is not because the guys or the company mishandled the job or the Shell contract.
Some have been lucky to find jobs elsewhere, ad hoc, temporary employment contracts etc. with terms and conditions not by near what they use to have. Some are without a job, and looking into a job market more dry than what is has been for decades. Bristow are letting go of 66 pilots, CHC Helicopterservice 19, so it will take years and 80-100$/barrel until we are back to what we had until last year for the pilots employed - I believe that the T&Cs we use to have, or a few still have, will go shortly and be gone forever.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: in a figment of my imagination
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NORTH SEA PILOTS SHOW STRONG SUPPORT FOR STRIKE ACTION
20/08/2015
North Sea Helicopter Pilots have indicated strong support for strike action if helicopter companies do not make serious improvements in the way they deal with job losses. They have also highlighted the serious impact on safety the threat of redundancy is having.
In the survey conducted by the British Airline Pilots’ Association (BALPA), pilots accepted the downturn in the industry meant jobs would go, but were frustrated at the way management are going about it.
Pilots want the helicopter companies to improve voluntary redundancy arrangements to try and prevent as many compulsory job losses as possible. And they believe the companies are not valuing the experience of senior pilots highly enough in deciding who may need to be made redundant.
BALPA General Secretary, Jim McAuslan, said: “We are not being unreasonable. We know the downturn in the North Sea is going to hit jobs, but the way the companies are going about it is causing massive frustration, borne out by the very high turnout and strong ‘yes’ vote in this ballot conducted over just four days.
“In the event management do not substantially shift their position BALPA’s National Executive Council will be meeting early next month to consider a move to a formal strike vote, something we are still hoping to avoid.”
A strong and worrying message from the survey was concern over safety. Pilots reported that the threat hanging over them, their families and their colleagues, was having serious unintended effects on their ability to sleep and concentrate.
One pilot commented: “In the past two weeks…there has been a noticeable change of focus in the cockpit. Crews are concerned and distracted and this is reflected in an increase of mistakes and lack of awareness. The threat of being ‘at risk’ is dominating the mindset of the majority of our pilots.”
Another said: “Do we really want pilots to be worried how their training costs and mortgage will be paid on a dark and stormy night?”
And a third said: “Radio calls are being missed. Pilots’ heads are not in the cockpit.”
Jim McAuslan continued: “Safety must come first. We are not saying that helicopter companies are indifferent to these issues, but we would be remiss if we didn’t highlight the stress and pressure that pilots are feeling. We will be passing these concerns on to the Civil Aviation Authority who regulate aviation in the North Sea.”
For more information contact:
Nancy Jackson
Media and External Relations Officer
Phone: 0208 476 4046
Email: [email protected]
20/08/2015
North Sea Helicopter Pilots have indicated strong support for strike action if helicopter companies do not make serious improvements in the way they deal with job losses. They have also highlighted the serious impact on safety the threat of redundancy is having.
In the survey conducted by the British Airline Pilots’ Association (BALPA), pilots accepted the downturn in the industry meant jobs would go, but were frustrated at the way management are going about it.
Pilots want the helicopter companies to improve voluntary redundancy arrangements to try and prevent as many compulsory job losses as possible. And they believe the companies are not valuing the experience of senior pilots highly enough in deciding who may need to be made redundant.
BALPA General Secretary, Jim McAuslan, said: “We are not being unreasonable. We know the downturn in the North Sea is going to hit jobs, but the way the companies are going about it is causing massive frustration, borne out by the very high turnout and strong ‘yes’ vote in this ballot conducted over just four days.
“In the event management do not substantially shift their position BALPA’s National Executive Council will be meeting early next month to consider a move to a formal strike vote, something we are still hoping to avoid.”
A strong and worrying message from the survey was concern over safety. Pilots reported that the threat hanging over them, their families and their colleagues, was having serious unintended effects on their ability to sleep and concentrate.
One pilot commented: “In the past two weeks…there has been a noticeable change of focus in the cockpit. Crews are concerned and distracted and this is reflected in an increase of mistakes and lack of awareness. The threat of being ‘at risk’ is dominating the mindset of the majority of our pilots.”
Another said: “Do we really want pilots to be worried how their training costs and mortgage will be paid on a dark and stormy night?”
And a third said: “Radio calls are being missed. Pilots’ heads are not in the cockpit.”
Jim McAuslan continued: “Safety must come first. We are not saying that helicopter companies are indifferent to these issues, but we would be remiss if we didn’t highlight the stress and pressure that pilots are feeling. We will be passing these concerns on to the Civil Aviation Authority who regulate aviation in the North Sea.”
For more information contact:
Nancy Jackson
Media and External Relations Officer
Phone: 0208 476 4046
Email: [email protected]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Are you guys serious?
The Offshore-pilots are making more money than anyone else in this industry-for basically watching the autopilot do their job (yeah, i can hear the uproar-and i am old enough not to care).
This industry has had its ups and downs since day 1-you can either live with this, or get a job in an office (for probably the same money the guy driving your cab to your heliport gets)..
This industry got hit hard by the low oil price...but i assume its a great idea hitting it even harder by initiating a strike......so the companies that already have lost lots of money can lose some more...
If that´s really the concern, you got 1) the wrong job, 2) the wrong attitude, and shouldn´t be in the cockpit at all...
The Offshore-pilots are making more money than anyone else in this industry-for basically watching the autopilot do their job (yeah, i can hear the uproar-and i am old enough not to care).
This industry has had its ups and downs since day 1-you can either live with this, or get a job in an office (for probably the same money the guy driving your cab to your heliport gets)..
This industry got hit hard by the low oil price...but i assume its a great idea hitting it even harder by initiating a strike......so the companies that already have lost lots of money can lose some more...
“Radio calls are being missed. Pilots’ heads are not in the cockpit.”
If that´s really the concern, you got 1) the wrong job, 2) the wrong attitude, and shouldn´t be in the cockpit at all...
Oops - some chips there - missed the point - no one said it is a hard job just why are helicopter operators 'allowed' to dismiss crews with no redundancy - despite T&Cs being agreed before hand?
Employment law never appears to work when it should.
Economics - that's why jumbo pilots get paid more than regionals carrying 80-pax and why NS pilots get paid more than robbo pilots.
However, regardless of what you fly, you plan for the future on the contract you have in front of you - but if that contract is essentially torn-up due to the prevalent attitude of the operators - 'because they know you also have liabilities - then you are left with having no income regardless of how low/high the oil price goes.
Personally, I hope price drops further and we all get back to reality - where a taxi doesn't get away with charging 20-quid for a 5-mile ride !!
PS I would a significant proportion of those suffering have done the FI route and thought they were on the road to paying-off their training debts so I suggest you wind your neck in before you make of an idiot of yourself ;-)
Employment law never appears to work when it should.
Economics - that's why jumbo pilots get paid more than regionals carrying 80-pax and why NS pilots get paid more than robbo pilots.
However, regardless of what you fly, you plan for the future on the contract you have in front of you - but if that contract is essentially torn-up due to the prevalent attitude of the operators - 'because they know you also have liabilities - then you are left with having no income regardless of how low/high the oil price goes.
Personally, I hope price drops further and we all get back to reality - where a taxi doesn't get away with charging 20-quid for a 5-mile ride !!
PS I would a significant proportion of those suffering have done the FI route and thought they were on the road to paying-off their training debts so I suggest you wind your neck in before you make of an idiot of yourself ;-)
This :-
is not the same as this:-
and this:-
So are people being dismissed or are they being made redundant? and what was the expectation?? Is a job in the NS one for life or are the redundancy payments so great? Actually given the position CHC are in I'm not sure paying any pilots they hope to loose huge payments is realistic?
why are helicopter operators 'allowed' to dismiss crews with no redundancy - despite T&Cs being agreed before hand?
Employment law never appears to work when it should.
Employment law never appears to work when it should.
Pilots have indicated strong support for strike action if helicopter companies do not make serious improvements in the way they deal with job losses. They have also highlighted the serious impact on safety the threat of redundancy is having.
Pilots reported that the threat hanging over them, their families and their colleagues, was having serious unintended effects on their ability to sleep and concentrate.
One pilot commented: “In the past two weeks…there has been a noticeable change of focus in the cockpit. Crews are concerned and distracted and this is reflected in an increase of mistakes and lack of awareness. The threat of being ‘at risk’ is dominating the mindset of the majority of our pilots.”
Another said: “Do we really want pilots to be worried how their training costs and mortgage will be paid on a dark and stormy night?”
And a third said: “Radio calls are being missed. Pilots’ heads are not in the cockpit.”
One pilot commented: “In the past two weeks…there has been a noticeable change of focus in the cockpit. Crews are concerned and distracted and this is reflected in an increase of mistakes and lack of awareness. The threat of being ‘at risk’ is dominating the mindset of the majority of our pilots.”
Another said: “Do we really want pilots to be worried how their training costs and mortgage will be paid on a dark and stormy night?”
And a third said: “Radio calls are being missed. Pilots’ heads are not in the cockpit.”
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK and MALTA
Age: 61
Posts: 1,297
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
4 Posts
Johni, you can either understand what it is like to face an uncertain financial future, possibly with a mortgage to pay and kids to feed.........or you can't.
I got made redundant in 1991 when jobs were very scarce. My Company treated me fairly giving me clear notice and enough money to "survive" for 6 months and I had only been in the job for 18 months.
I was very very lucky and got a job within a month of the redundancy. Paid much less and I would say it took 10 years to recover back to where I was. For me and my family it was horrible despite the fair treatment and the Company's strict observation of our industrial agreements.
Normally on the NS it is last in first out. This means tha identification of those affected is quick and easy and usually they are junior so the managers can ensure they fly with someone secure until their runout date. This is probably the safest way to do it. Of course the Company will want high earners at the top to go to maximise the recuperation of revenue and they normally offer a voluntary package to attract some of those people.
However, when a Company boldly announces that they will pick and choose their victims, and therefore everyone is at risk, not only is the collective stress horrendous but there is no obvious way to manage crewing that assures at least one person in the cockpit is not worried.
For the usual heros posting that the pilot should suck it up...has it ever happened to you? If it has and it did not worry you or you enjoyed the experience then post away. For the rest, recognise at least from all those CRM seminars you have done that stress, caused by life change, can and will reduce the performance and the safety of those affected by this situation.
For me, I offer my support and solidarity to those affected and wish you all the best. I hope things turn around soon and the knife does not cut so deep.
I am dismayed by the morons posting here and almost gloating at what is happening. It rather proves the point that amongst our brethren is a whole group of p**cks who cannot contain there bitter vitriolic prose knowing full well how it would affect those concerned. Hueyracer, you are in that group!
DB
I got made redundant in 1991 when jobs were very scarce. My Company treated me fairly giving me clear notice and enough money to "survive" for 6 months and I had only been in the job for 18 months.
I was very very lucky and got a job within a month of the redundancy. Paid much less and I would say it took 10 years to recover back to where I was. For me and my family it was horrible despite the fair treatment and the Company's strict observation of our industrial agreements.
Normally on the NS it is last in first out. This means tha identification of those affected is quick and easy and usually they are junior so the managers can ensure they fly with someone secure until their runout date. This is probably the safest way to do it. Of course the Company will want high earners at the top to go to maximise the recuperation of revenue and they normally offer a voluntary package to attract some of those people.
However, when a Company boldly announces that they will pick and choose their victims, and therefore everyone is at risk, not only is the collective stress horrendous but there is no obvious way to manage crewing that assures at least one person in the cockpit is not worried.
For the usual heros posting that the pilot should suck it up...has it ever happened to you? If it has and it did not worry you or you enjoyed the experience then post away. For the rest, recognise at least from all those CRM seminars you have done that stress, caused by life change, can and will reduce the performance and the safety of those affected by this situation.
For me, I offer my support and solidarity to those affected and wish you all the best. I hope things turn around soon and the knife does not cut so deep.
I am dismayed by the morons posting here and almost gloating at what is happening. It rather proves the point that amongst our brethren is a whole group of p**cks who cannot contain there bitter vitriolic prose knowing full well how it would affect those concerned. Hueyracer, you are in that group!
DB
am dismayed by the morons posting here and almost gloating at what is happening. It rather proves the point that amongst our brethren is a whole group of p**cks who cannot contain there bitter vitriolic prose knowing full well how it would affect those concerned. Hueyracer, you are in that group!
I know it comes as a huge surprise to you but in 2015 people loose their jobs. Its not nice and sometimes its not fair. However when you look at the stock price of these entities you'd be a total idiot if you had woken up to the issues in the last weeks. In fact perhaps the people who owned CHC stock at $10 are hurting as much?? I digress.
Are these guys asking for some kind of immunity from ever loosing a job??
Investing in the stock market is practically gambling, and in most cases that's exactly what it is, so why should gamblers be immune from redundancy? what is the relevance of gambling in stocks in relation to redundancy? None what so ever. Pointless agreement.
Should not gamble more than you can afford to lose anyway!
Should not gamble more than you can afford to lose anyway!
Yeah why worry about the people who actually own the business... All those investor conferences at CHC, Bristow and EADS all start with "welcome gambling mugs..."
Probably the relevance here is that you work for a company where the fundamentals have weakened and your own companies stock has tanked... Some might call that a big fukking red flag?? Although don't tell the pilots...
Probably the relevance here is that you work for a company where the fundamentals have weakened and your own companies stock has tanked... Some might call that a big fukking red flag?? Although don't tell the pilots...
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK and MALTA
Age: 61
Posts: 1,297
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
4 Posts
So Johni, the question stands! Have you ever suffered a redundancy and witnessed first hand what it feels like. What it means to you and your family (assuming you have one)?
Guest
Posts: n/a
For the rest, recognise at least from all those CRM seminars you have done that stress,
Life is full of eventualities and unexpected changes....
Girl friends getting pregnant, family members die, people getting divorced, others get cancer...
Life is bitter-be prepared for it.
CRM seems to be the excuse to almost everything nowadays, and "Safety concerns" seem to be the holy grail to anyone trying to achieve anything...
Hueyracer, you are in that group!
Did not go on holiday twice a year, did not buy a new car every 3 years, but put money aside and-when made "redundant"-was prepared and did not have to call in for "flight safety" and CRM....and i never made the big bucks flying NS...
But i have had pilots coming from the NS trying to get a job down here-either for Utility or Onshore-remote area work..and you know what?
None of them could fly, despite having thousands of hours "in the difficult north sea"...but that´s not the point.
The point is:
You cannot take all your life, and then call in for sympathy when your luck ends......
I don´t mean to sound harsh-but we don´t call the offshore-guys "Pretty pilots" for no reason!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK and MALTA
Age: 61
Posts: 1,297
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
4 Posts
Pitts you need to look at the definition of sociopath! A person incapable of empathy!
Hueyracer, maybe you would not do too well on a night ARA in a cluttered field in poor weather and high wind. Courses for horses!
If you call working "taking" then your view of life is not the same as mine. Whatever you may think, Getting up at 04:30 in the morning to pound the radials in the dark, miserable weather feels a lot like work?
Hueyracer, maybe you would not do too well on a night ARA in a cluttered field in poor weather and high wind. Courses for horses!
If you call working "taking" then your view of life is not the same as mine. Whatever you may think, Getting up at 04:30 in the morning to pound the radials in the dark, miserable weather feels a lot like work?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Getting up at 0430 is something "special" for you?
Then how about the doctors working 24 hours shifts, the bakers getting up at 0200 to make your bread, the engineers preparing your aircraft starting at 0300?
Flying IFR is one of the simplest things in aviation (assuming you are IFR-rated, of course)....
But it´s not about the "difficulties" here...its about the pilots taking away the big bucks, then suddenly complaining when that comes to an end......
What do they actually want to achieve?
The companies have already lost money-that´s why they got rid of "expenses" (aka pilots)...
Not flying means they will not make money-or even have to pay compensation.....aka losing more money...anyone not understanding this should not be in a cockpit....so be careful what you guys wish for......there are always pilots waiting to get that job for less money...
Then how about the doctors working 24 hours shifts, the bakers getting up at 0200 to make your bread, the engineers preparing your aircraft starting at 0300?
Flying IFR is one of the simplest things in aviation (assuming you are IFR-rated, of course)....
But it´s not about the "difficulties" here...its about the pilots taking away the big bucks, then suddenly complaining when that comes to an end......
What do they actually want to achieve?
The companies have already lost money-that´s why they got rid of "expenses" (aka pilots)...
Not flying means they will not make money-or even have to pay compensation.....aka losing more money...anyone not understanding this should not be in a cockpit....so be careful what you guys wish for......there are always pilots waiting to get that job for less money...
Last edited by hueyracer; 20th Aug 2015 at 17:41.
You are dismissed if you are made 'redundant' but not given your redundancy.
The ease at which companies can chop and change when convenient to them is a prime Flight Safety concern.
Why would you continue to work for a company that has told you how they intend to dismiss you as cheaply as possible?
The ease at which companies can chop and change when convenient to them is a prime Flight Safety concern.
Why would you continue to work for a company that has told you how they intend to dismiss you as cheaply as possible?
Getting up at 0430 is something "special" for you?
Then how about the doctors working 24 hours shifts, the bakers getting up at 0200 to make your bread, the engineers preparing your aircraft starting at 0300?
Flying IFR is one of the simplest things in aviation (assuming you are IFR-rated, of course)....
But it´s not about the "difficulties" here...its about the pilots taking away the big bucks, then suddenly complaining when that comes to an end......
What do they actually want to achieve?
The companies have already lost money-that´s why they got rid of "expenses" (aka pilots)...
Not flying means they will not make money-or even have to pay compensation.....aka losing more money...anyone not understanding this should not be in a cockpit....so be careful what you guys wish for......there are always pilots waiting to get that job for less money...
Then how about the doctors working 24 hours shifts, the bakers getting up at 0200 to make your bread, the engineers preparing your aircraft starting at 0300?
Flying IFR is one of the simplest things in aviation (assuming you are IFR-rated, of course)....
But it´s not about the "difficulties" here...its about the pilots taking away the big bucks, then suddenly complaining when that comes to an end......
What do they actually want to achieve?
The companies have already lost money-that´s why they got rid of "expenses" (aka pilots)...
Not flying means they will not make money-or even have to pay compensation.....aka losing more money...anyone not understanding this should not be in a cockpit....so be careful what you guys wish for......there are always pilots waiting to get that job for less money...
Guest
Posts: n/a
Why would you continue to work for a company that has told you how they intend to dismiss you as cheaply as possible?
Do the contracts the pilots have actually SAY that they are paid compensation or "redundancy"?
Or did the just ASSUME that this should be the case, as they are now working for the "big shots"?
You are dismissed if you are made 'redundant' but not given your redundancy.
The ease at which companies can chop and change when convenient to them is a prime Flight Safety concern.
Why would you continue to work for a company that has told you how they intend to dismiss you as cheaply as possible?
The ease at which companies can chop and change when convenient to them is a prime Flight Safety concern.
Why would you continue to work for a company that has told you how they intend to dismiss you as cheaply as possible?
On the "why would you work for.." question then why threaten to quit?? Just quit. A bigger question is why continue to work for a company that does that to others.... Then they came for me...