Noise suffered by the people on the ground
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I'm afraid those being arrogantly dismissive of concerns on helicopter noise are not doing the industry any favours here. We ought to assume that Tony SLF has a ligitimate interest in the subject - his post was hardly a rant. And even if not there are plenty of others who are concerned - not surprisingly - with helicopter noise.
We should not only be couteously explaining the low flying rules, (as CBS did) and helicopter noise certification regulations, but also making it clear that as pilots we should be trying to minimise the noise impact of our activities - eg by flying as high as is sensible, making steep climbs and steep approaches etc etc.
We need to think long term - and even medium term. Whilst regulations may not change in the next 5-10 years, in time they surely will, and we are likely to enjoy less freedom in what, how and where we fly because of new regulations from public pressure to reduce the noise impact of helicopters.
I'm afraid too many posts here demonstrate a poor, inconsiderate attitude to what is a real issue. We all know these posts get trawled for info in the event of accidents. They could be equally used to demonstrate a couldn't care less attitude by the industry (which is untrue) which will be antagonising to those who lobby to constrain helicopter flying.
Of course by the worst offenders are the military and I do think serious questions should be asked about the need, for example, for Chinooks to fly over well populated areas at circa 250ft to the extent they do.
We should not only be couteously explaining the low flying rules, (as CBS did) and helicopter noise certification regulations, but also making it clear that as pilots we should be trying to minimise the noise impact of our activities - eg by flying as high as is sensible, making steep climbs and steep approaches etc etc.
We need to think long term - and even medium term. Whilst regulations may not change in the next 5-10 years, in time they surely will, and we are likely to enjoy less freedom in what, how and where we fly because of new regulations from public pressure to reduce the noise impact of helicopters.
I'm afraid too many posts here demonstrate a poor, inconsiderate attitude to what is a real issue. We all know these posts get trawled for info in the event of accidents. They could be equally used to demonstrate a couldn't care less attitude by the industry (which is untrue) which will be antagonising to those who lobby to constrain helicopter flying.
Of course by the worst offenders are the military and I do think serious questions should be asked about the need, for example, for Chinooks to fly over well populated areas at circa 250ft to the extent they do.
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I thought Tony's rant was about private helicopters 
Besides, I would have thought that rather than the slight occasional trickle of private helicopters passing by being an annoyance to her, the anti social motorbike riders prevelant in that area would have been more of a concern.
Besides, I would have thought that rather than the slight occasional trickle of private helicopters passing by being an annoyance to her, the anti social motorbike riders prevelant in that area would have been more of a concern.
Rotorspeed you are naive to expect anything other than the response he justifiably deserved on this forum for the following reasons:
(a) This is a haven for all things - aviation. One would expect anyone complaining about aviation to be (thus) - flamed
(b) Helicopters by their very design and nature are noisy things. Pilots fly by the rules (mostly) and an overflight anywhere is going to cause collateral noise - not because of the inconsiderate attitude of the driver but as mentioned - because they are loud machines
Living next to the motorway, in a city, near the beach (seagulls) causes noise. It is a fact of life and NOT a fault of the inadequacies of the pilot.
So he got what he deserved. If he had done a little bit of research on the subject, he would have found that there was no cause for complaint. He has simply displayed his true colours - that of a NIMBY.
And with a handle like yours - you should show more solidarity to your industry
(a) This is a haven for all things - aviation. One would expect anyone complaining about aviation to be (thus) - flamed
(b) Helicopters by their very design and nature are noisy things. Pilots fly by the rules (mostly) and an overflight anywhere is going to cause collateral noise - not because of the inconsiderate attitude of the driver but as mentioned - because they are loud machines
Living next to the motorway, in a city, near the beach (seagulls) causes noise. It is a fact of life and NOT a fault of the inadequacies of the pilot.
So he got what he deserved. If he had done a little bit of research on the subject, he would have found that there was no cause for complaint. He has simply displayed his true colours - that of a NIMBY.
And with a handle like yours - you should show more solidarity to your industry
Both TC and Rotorspeed are right to a degree, however there is no argument until some actual facts are put down on the table. Perceived noise is what it is all about. Once your ears are tuned for the noise there is no hope for the pro heli lobby !!! Mrs 500 can here me coming home long before anyone else can even hear the machine ( probably to make sure her other man has got out the house ! ) My grandparents lived in London with their back garden edging on to the main SW rail line they could never hear the trains yet used to keep me awake as a kid on visits !
Perhaps Tony could be more specific with actual details
Perhaps Tony could be more specific with actual details
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Silsoe; how does anyone tell private helicopters from corporate? Clearly impossible, and even identfying what are public service helicopters is not easy. So reference to 'private' is probably fairly meaningless - apart from perhaps indicating a chip-on-shoulder mentality.
TC; you've got it wrong - I'm very much trying to support our industry. And that is not going to be achieved by us being blinkered to real issues. However I do concede I may have been naive - in expecting posters to be objective rather than being knee-jerk defensive to any criticism.
I stand by my comments, partly because even when one might think a point is being exaggerated (ie 60 seconds of conversation-killing overflight) being understanding rather than defensive tends to diffuse antagonism - that can easily escalate.
TC; you've got it wrong - I'm very much trying to support our industry. And that is not going to be achieved by us being blinkered to real issues. However I do concede I may have been naive - in expecting posters to be objective rather than being knee-jerk defensive to any criticism.
I stand by my comments, partly because even when one might think a point is being exaggerated (ie 60 seconds of conversation-killing overflight) being understanding rather than defensive tends to diffuse antagonism - that can easily escalate.
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ROFLMAO
Silsoe; how does anyone tell private helicopters from corporate? Clearly impossible, and even identfying what are public service helicopters is not easy. So reference to 'private' is probably fairly meaningless - apart from perhaps indicating your chip-on-shoulder mentality.
Rotor speed, May I suggest that you get off your high horse and read the first post in this thread before going off on one; as far as shooting oneself in the foot situations go, that has to be a classic
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Silsoe; I rather think you're the one that's on your high horse. Please explain why you think I've shot myself in the foot. Frankly I have no idea what you're talking about.
Furthermore perhaps you thought I was referring to your possible chip-on-the-shoulder mentality. In fact I wasn't, I was just considering that perhaps the original poster stated private helicopters because he had such a mentality. I can see though my post wasn't clear, on a further read.
Furthermore perhaps you thought I was referring to your possible chip-on-the-shoulder mentality. In fact I wasn't, I was just considering that perhaps the original poster stated private helicopters because he had such a mentality. I can see though my post wasn't clear, on a further read.
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Well there we go, y'see.
Did it occur to you that the OP is either...
a) A troll (I don't think so, somehow).
b) Going through a difficult period of life.
c) One of those people to whom Darwin's law doesn't apply.
I'll be generous and go for b), myself.
p.s. Bloody BK117s! (HEMS to nearby major hospital)
They take the froth off my cappuccino. I suffer.
Did it occur to you that the OP is either...
a) A troll (I don't think so, somehow).
b) Going through a difficult period of life.
c) One of those people to whom Darwin's law doesn't apply.
I'll be generous and go for b), myself.
p.s. Bloody BK117s! (HEMS to nearby major hospital)
They take the froth off my cappuccino. I suffer.
Last edited by Stanwell; 6th May 2015 at 16:07.
rotorspeed - in all my years of aviation I have only ever seen chinooks at such a low height well away from congested areas. If they've been over towns then they have always been higher. AND we don't exactly have enough chinooks flying round the UK to be worried about noise either. Your comments are not helpful either!
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Misterbonkers; the problem with some low military flying such as with Chinooks is not that they fly over congested areas but over some reasonably densely populated rural areas, sometimes frightening horses etc. Now I love to see them at 250ft but many others don't!
Which of my comments are unhelpful, and to whom and why?
Which of my comments are unhelpful, and to whom and why?
A horse can be frightened by a piece of paper, a camera flash, a dog farting, and a passing helicopter. ONLY the helicopter will evoke a response from the horse's owner. Perceived noise nuisance.
I have spent thousands of hours at low level (level with the wire) on power line inspections, and have scared the snot out of lots of horses, because they were hiding behind a line of trees that I overflew. Whenever I saw horses ahead of me, I pulled away from the line, went around the nags at a suitable distance, and rejoined the line. But many times, a bunch of hoses would suddenly start running - straight at me. Horses is such stoopid people.
I have spent thousands of hours at low level (level with the wire) on power line inspections, and have scared the snot out of lots of horses, because they were hiding behind a line of trees that I overflew. Whenever I saw horses ahead of me, I pulled away from the line, went around the nags at a suitable distance, and rejoined the line. But many times, a bunch of hoses would suddenly start running - straight at me. Horses is such stoopid people.
Rotorspeed - not helpful because they suggest that low flying military helicopters are a big problem when they simply are not.
Ascend Charlie - you're bang right with your post. The worst situations with horse are when the owner is in the field with them - owner panics then horse panics! Its the same with riders.
Ascend Charlie - you're bang right with your post. The worst situations with horse are when the owner is in the field with them - owner panics then horse panics! Its the same with riders.
Here in Oz yesterday, Tracy Grimshaw, a TV personality, was tossed from her horse onto her head, was unconscious for 30 mins, taken to hospital (by a chopper).
The horse had been scared by a lawnmower.
There will probably be no action taken against the user of the mower, but imagine the fuss if it had been a helicopter that scared the neddy. No mention of whether the horse put in a noise complaint against the rescue helicopter when it arrive to cart Tracy away. The lawnmower was put down.
The horse had been scared by a lawnmower.
There will probably be no action taken against the user of the mower, but imagine the fuss if it had been a helicopter that scared the neddy. No mention of whether the horse put in a noise complaint against the rescue helicopter when it arrive to cart Tracy away. The lawnmower was put down.
It is noteworthy that the two dissenters in this thread (AtomKraft and Tony_SLF) are Jet Blast residents with little or no aviation experience. Having come here for an opinion they don't seem to like the answers since they don't conform to the expectations of today whereby anyone complaining must be deemed in the right and any dissenting opinions are automatically wrong 
Don't worry chaps, one day technology will be able to tell what the horse is thinking. As a truck goes by followed by the dirt bike and helicopter and then a drone, the horse rider loses altitude and starts eating dirt. What's going on in the horse's mind? Same as always. Get this f***in' metal thing out of my mouth!
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I have had horses stand and look at me when I come within 20 meters of them! Maybe next time I'll try to get a video of it.
Most of my flying is around animals, and I find that they tend to be a lot like their owners. The mental, high stress ones have animals just the same...
Most of my flying is around animals, and I find that they tend to be a lot like their owners. The mental, high stress ones have animals just the same...
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The OP has made 2 posts in this thread: in the first he was asking a perfectly reasonable question and in the second he thanked those who answered sensibly and (quite rightly) took exception to some of the unnecessarily vitriolic responses. So who are the trolls?
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Mel,
The questions he got around to asking were, indeed, reasonable.
It was the introductory sentences of his initial post that got peoples' goat.
My own reaction to that post was 'Oh dear,... what are we dealing with here?'
Emotive language, exaggeration, assumption and a lack of relevant detail does not do much for one's credibility.
The questions he got around to asking were, indeed, reasonable.
It was the introductory sentences of his initial post that got peoples' goat.
My own reaction to that post was 'Oh dear,... what are we dealing with here?'
Emotive language, exaggeration, assumption and a lack of relevant detail does not do much for one's credibility.
