Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Multi-pilot type rating with ATPL(H)

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Multi-pilot type rating with ATPL(H)

Old 20th Feb 2015, 14:52
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Spain
Age: 43
Posts: 32
Multi-pilot type rating with ATPL(H)

Hi guys.

I have a question. Do you need a MCC to have a multi-pilot type
rating if you are ATPL ? (Don't ask me how could I get the atpl
without the MCC course... it has to do with my military experience).


I'm talking about EASA rules. I have read similar questions here but not
this in particular.

Thank you in advance.
palacio802 is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2015, 16:08
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Around the world
Age: 37
Posts: 99
As far as I know you do not need MCC course because your military experience is enough because you always flight multi pilot operations.

I think I have read in somewhere that your need MCC or equivalent militar experience to get your ATPL.

Un saludo.

Last edited by xtremalsound; 20th Feb 2015 at 16:48.
xtremalsound is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2015, 18:03
  #3 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 67
Posts: 3,771
You need the MCC (or equivalent) for the licence, but not necessarily for a type rating, if I read the rules right.

Phil
paco is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2015, 18:09
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Around the world
Age: 37
Posts: 99
Phill,

you are right, you do not need MCC or equivalent for the rating, just only for license, however if you want to have multi pilot capabilities in the twin engine rating, you need it.
xtremalsound is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2015, 19:21
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: On the green bit near the blue wobbly stuff
Posts: 599
To start a MP TR course, you need to EITHER hold a certificate of MCC training, OR be able to evidence suitable previous multi-crew experience from the military. Off the top of my head, I think its 500 hours. Otherwise, you can do a TR course with integrated MCC.
Non-PC Plod is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2015, 08:06
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East of Africa
Age: 43
Posts: 831
You cannot get a MPH rating without MCC-period.

You can either get the MCC course (VFR or IFR, depending upon your needs) BEFORE you get a MPH-rating, or you combine the MCC-course with your MPH-rating…

Either way, MCC needs to be completed before you can do your final check ride on a MPH.

I don´t comment on how you could get your ATPL without MCC (stopped wondering on how spain and portugal "handle" things that no other EASA country does)….
hueyracer is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2015, 15:22
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southwest EU
Posts: 18
JAR-FCL 2.250(a)(1) (continued)

(ii) applicants having an experience of
at least 500 hours as pilot in mult-pilot
operations approved by the Authority, on single
pilot, multi-engine helicopters, shall be
considered to meet the requirements of MCC.

Cheers

Miles
e-miles is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2015, 16:01
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 145
What's JAR-FCL 2 got to do with it?
Pete O'Tewbe is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2015, 16:48
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southwest EU
Posts: 18
I understand that JAR FCL2 rules the requirements for pilot licensing in easa countries. Am I wrong?
e-miles is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2015, 16:51
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 145
Hugely.

Try the snappily-titled Commission Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011 (as amended).
Pete O'Tewbe is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2015, 17:50
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southwest EU
Posts: 18
SECTION 3
SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS FOR THE HELICOPTER CATEGORY
FCL.720.H Experiencerequirementsandprerequisitesfortheissueoftyperatin gs—helicopters
Unless otherwise determined in the operational suitability data established in accordance with Part-21, an applicant for the issue of the first helicopter type rating shall comply with the following experience requirements and prerequisites for the issue of the relevant rating:
(a) Multi-pilot helicopters. An applicant for the first type rating course for a multi-pilot helicopter type shall:
(1) have at least 70 hours as PIC on helicopters;
(2) except when the type rating course is combined with an MCC course:
(i) hold a certificate of satisfactory completion of an MCC course in helicopters; or
(ii) have at least 500 hours as a pilot on multi-pilot aeroplanes; or
(iii) have at least 500 hours as a pilot in multi-pilot operations on multi-engine helicopters;
(b) An applicant for the first type rating course for a multi-pilot helicopter type who is a graduate from an ATP(H)/IR, ATP(H), CPL(H)/IR or CPL(H) integrated course and who does not comply with the
An agency of the European Union
(3) have passed the ATPL(H) theoretical knowledge examinations.


So it says that it is possible to have a MP type rating without having the MCC course and so the ATPL, please correct me if I'm wrong again
e-miles is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2015, 18:20
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: On the green bit near the blue wobbly stuff
Posts: 599
Yes, as I said earlier, if you can evidence 500 hours multi-crew from the military, that fulfils the MCC requirements. It used to be that you would get an "MCC exemption" letter from the CAA (I have one somewhere). With EASA, the onus has been transferred to the ATO/TRTO to check you have the requisite experience or MCC qualification before you start the MP type rating.
Trust me - I have been through this a number of times over the last few years as a TRI with trainees straight from the military going into SAR or offshore jobs. This is the way it works with the CAA.
Non-PC Plod is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2015, 20:10
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East of Africa
Age: 43
Posts: 831
There are agreements between most (every?) military organizations and their respective CAA´s, stating exactly what credit a military pilot can get (most of the time upon request only)……

If you meet these requirements, and you can get a letter from the military and/or the CAA that you´re credited with the MCC or MCC IR, then you can go ahead….otherwise….you´ll have to do the course...
hueyracer is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2015, 23:09
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Around the world
Age: 37
Posts: 99
Hueyracer,

In spain you can not get your multi pilot rating or ATPL without MCC , otherwise you have flown multi crew operations in the army and you have a valid certificate approved by one of the authorizes branchs.

When I got my ATPL, I had to get MCC certificate before the Checkride.

Let me tell you that EASA spain follows the rules by the book, even more strictly than other Easa countries...
xtremalsound is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2015, 10:07
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East of Africa
Age: 43
Posts: 831
Tell that to the last pilot i took the check ride off…..showing up with 235 hours on a R22, and an ATPL(H) with IR on it……

hueyracer is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2015, 10:20
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 1,605
hueyracer

My belief was that to hold a valid ATPL(IR) you'd need way more than just 235 hours in an R22. What about all of the other requirements. ?? You may well have passed the written exams for ATPL, or do they just give ATPL(H) away on the back of a packet of Corn Flakes these days?

Depending on country, I reckon you need the following for an ATPL (or else I was conned) :-

Description

The holder of a Part-FCL ATPL(H) can fly EASA Helicopters registered in the EU and non-EASA Helicopters registered in the UK that fall within the privileges of the licence and the valid ratings included in the licence.


Holders can:

- Exercise all the privileges of the holder of an LAPL(H), a PPL(H) and a CPL(H)

- Act as PIC of helicopters engaged in commercial air transport.

Pre-Requisites

Theoretical Knowledge Examinations

Please refer to CAP804. Section 4 Part F, Subpart 2

Experience

Applicants for an ATPL(H) shall have completed a minimum of:

• 1000 hours of flight time in helicopters, including at least:
350 hours in multi-pilot operations on helicopters;
(i) 250 hours as PIC; Or
(ii) 100 hours as PIC and 150 hours as PIC under supervision; or
(iii) 250 hours as PIC under supervision in multi-pilot helicopters. In this case, the ATPL(H) privileges shall be limited to multi-pilot operations only, until 100 hours as PIC have been completed;
200 hours of cross-country flight time of which at least 100 hours shall be as PIC or as PIC under supervision;
30 hours of instrument time of which not more than 30 hours may be instrument ground time; and
100 hours of night flight as PIC or co-pilot.
Of the 1000 hours of flight time, up to 100 hours of flight time may have been completed in an FSTD of which not more than 25
hours may be completed in an FNPT .

The above experience shall be completed before the skill test for the ATPL(H) is taken.

Skills test and Licence Issue Requirements

Applicants for an ATPL (H) shall pass a skill test in accordance with Appendix 9 to Part-FCL to demonstrate the ability to perform, as PIC of a multi-pilot helicopter under IFR, the relevant procedures and manoeuvres with the competency appropriate to the privileges granted.
Your medical records must be held by the UK CAA and you must hold a current and valid PART MED class 1 medical certificate.
A current and valid Language Proficiency level acceptable to the UK CAA
Cost

£243 for the issue a Part FCL ATPL (H).
helimutt is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2015, 15:44
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Around the world
Age: 37
Posts: 99
Hueyracer,

I don't belive what you are telling... To schedeule an ATP checkride, the first requeritment,you need is to send a certificate of flight experience to check that you are meeting the minimun requeriments. Only after that a checkride can be schedeuled.

If you flight, outside of Spain, the certificate must be stamp and validate with the apostille of The Hague.

In fact I know few guys with thousands of hours, multi engine experience willing to have ATPL and they could not get it because they can not show evidences( with approved certificates) of the minimun requirements.

It is totally impossible to see a ATPL(H) with 235 hours in R22 even in dreams...otherwise it is a frozen ATPL(H)

I can not say anything about the requirements in Portugal, but in Spain I can assure that with 235 hours in R22 never ever you get it.
xtremalsound is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2015, 16:22
  #18 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 12,327
The R-22 isn't even certified for IFR flight.
ShyTorque is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.