Bell 206l
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Bell 206l
Hi PPruners, I am new here. I am searching for a suitable single light turbine for a business venture for across the board tasks. Really, with the production closure of B206 and everyone getting rid of them in favour of newer machines like squirrels and 407's etc. I am looking hard at Longranger 3's and maybe even 4. I could probably pick up a AS350 ba with similar hours hours he same outlay, but my research says they are more costly to run and have 12 yearly to deal with. Does the longranger really have any disadvantages, compared with a ba squirrel? Thanks in advance.
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If I was going to operate a machine rather than just fly it, I would always prefer Bell unless there is a compelling reason otherwise. In my experience, their after sales service is way better and a lot less arrogant. The LR is a good corporate ship, as is the 407, if you get later models.
Phil
Phil
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Thanks Phil, sage advice. My heart would say squirrel but head says Longranger. I hope Bell sticks with the production of the longranger to keep the value of that machine up. Cheers, Skids up.
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Hey Skids, Nothing wrong with the L/R, L4 is excellent, but L3 is fine. 407 is magnificent but much more expensive (and I absolutely agree with Paco's comments on Customer Support, they are very good at it) - VFR
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Please,
I'm wondering why AH sold twice more single than Bell last year ?
Not the price, the euro was very hight.
Not the after sale as I read the comments above.
So why ? What is this "compelling reason" ? The name Airbus sounds well ?
Or does that mean that two third of the operators don't have head but just heart ? They don't pay the bills ?
I'm really wondering !
.
Please,
I'm wondering why AH sold twice more single than Bell last year ?
Not the price, the euro was very hight.
Not the after sale as I read the comments above.
So why ? What is this "compelling reason" ? The name Airbus sounds well ?
Or does that mean that two third of the operators don't have head but just heart ? They don't pay the bills ?
I'm really wondering !
.
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Marketing is probably one answer. Also, as you say, they may not pay the bills 
From a pilot's perspective, AH stuff is fine. But it's a different story when you have a machine on the ground for over three months while they fix an engine and/or gearbox. See how that affects the bottom line.
Phil
From a pilot's perspective, AH stuff is fine. But it's a different story when you have a machine on the ground for over three months while they fix an engine and/or gearbox. See how that affects the bottom line.Phil
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Got to agree with Phil...as a pilot, sure the Astar is a pretty good aircraft, I still have a love for Longrangers though having flown both. As an owner, logistics for support put the Longrangers way ahead...parts, support, and maintenence is plentiful and in my observation more economical.
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HeliHenri
have a look at who the new aircraft sales go to. the large majority will go to large organisations and governments. Most of them aren't playing with their own money, or have a built in equipment replacement program every so many years, and wont get hit with the bills and maintenance issues that the guys running the 10-20-30-50 yr old machines have to deal with.
I'm sure the 350 is a nice machine, but its the engine and component costs and availability once you have a 20 year old, 10,000hr machine where so far Euro/Bus have fallen over.
I don't think that its particularly that Bell have done anything better, but when you can buy another entire Long Ranger for the cost of a couple of modules it surely has to make you think about it...
have a look at who the new aircraft sales go to. the large majority will go to large organisations and governments. Most of them aren't playing with their own money, or have a built in equipment replacement program every so many years, and wont get hit with the bills and maintenance issues that the guys running the 10-20-30-50 yr old machines have to deal with.
I'm sure the 350 is a nice machine, but its the engine and component costs and availability once you have a 20 year old, 10,000hr machine where so far Euro/Bus have fallen over.
I don't think that its particularly that Bell have done anything better, but when you can buy another entire Long Ranger for the cost of a couple of modules it surely has to make you think about it...
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Hello Super F,
Your explanation is clear but what I don't understand is that there must be a lot of LR and just few 350 in NZ (no big organizations) and we know that is not the case. Why there are so many 350/130 used by small operators (who are playing whith their own money) in NZ ?
(I take the example of NZ because you're lucky to live there and because I'm found of the way Kiwis love flying . )
P.S : I don't know if my question is understandable in English ...
.
Hello Super F,
Your explanation is clear but what I don't understand is that there must be a lot of LR and just few 350 in NZ (no big organizations) and we know that is not the case. Why there are so many 350/130 used by small operators (who are playing whith their own money) in NZ ?
(I take the example of NZ because you're lucky to live there and because I'm found of the way Kiwis love flying
. )P.S : I don't know if my question is understandable in English ...
.
Hi HH, your English is just fine!
Lots of EC here because they're the best for tourism and mountains.
However people doing ag and utility often using MD and Bell for aforementioned reasons.
Cheers
JohnO
Lots of EC here because they're the best for tourism and mountains.
However people doing ag and utility often using MD and Bell for aforementioned reasons.
Cheers
JohnO
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Hi HH,
i've got no idea why...
pilots like them, but it is always interesting to see how long the Ag guys that decide to move into a 350 survive as an operator. Generally they tend to go broke faster than the guys that stick with a smaller machine.
I can't think of many Ag operator that have been running 350's in country for more than 15-20 years. there are quite a few JR and 500 operators well past that time.
For a long time we looked at resale value of second hand machines. Why are there so many 10-15 year old 350s for sale quite cheap, but all the Long Rangers were so expensive, and guys held onto them for 20-30 years? Now that the LR price has come down more are coming into NZ...
i've got no idea why...
pilots like them, but it is always interesting to see how long the Ag guys that decide to move into a 350 survive as an operator. Generally they tend to go broke faster than the guys that stick with a smaller machine.
I can't think of many Ag operator that have been running 350's in country for more than 15-20 years. there are quite a few JR and 500 operators well past that time.
For a long time we looked at resale value of second hand machines. Why are there so many 10-15 year old 350s for sale quite cheap, but all the Long Rangers were so expensive, and guys held onto them for 20-30 years? Now that the LR price has come down more are coming into NZ...
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HeliHenri
Your English is good except you start everything with a period (full stop) and then put another one way out on its own a few lines after the end of your post.
That's not a convention even in American English.
You don't need to do that to get folks to read your posts.
I don't know if my question is understandable in English ...
That's not a convention even in American English.
You don't need to do that to get folks to read your posts.
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Rentals? Exchange units?
I don't think I have ever seen an operator put an aircraft down waiting for a component to be O/H'd.
What part of the world Paco? (just curious)
Regards,
Rigidhead
I don't think I have ever seen an operator put an aircraft down waiting for a component to be O/H'd.
What part of the world Paco? (just curious)
Regards,
Rigidhead
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UK - we operated 2 twin squirrels on powerline ops and had to send the bits away to Canada for fixing/servicing because we would have a ship on the ground for months otherwise - and we were doing 5 hours per day on 4 machines. Totally unacceptable. We also had 2 206s which were much more predictable in terms of operating costs and servicing.
The only real advantage a B2 has over an LR is you can get an 8 foot pole across the cabin
Phil
The only real advantage a B2 has over an LR is you can get an 8 foot pole across the cabin
Phil
Skids up - if you want to stand any chance of making any money then follow your heart not your head.
If I was starting out with a single engine turbine. I'd go for the Longbox every day.
If you want to be a Millionaire in aviation then start out as a Billionaire!
If I was starting out with a single engine turbine. I'd go for the Longbox every day.
If you want to be a Millionaire in aviation then start out as a Billionaire!
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As many have already said you will never rival the Bell support, as you can guess from my title I am a huge fan, the L4 is a great aircraft, to be fair we still run an L1 for 800hrs per year which it does with no hassle and very limited down time pm if you need any info on the L4
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Thanks to everyone for their valued input. It seems as though the longranger is a respected machine everywhere, irrespective of what has come along since and it holds it's own. No doubt there are compromises; probably the biggest for me is the sling load capacity, but for many applications it still carries plenty. Definitely the biggest consideration for me has to be operating cost. If there are any operators of L3's and 4's reading, what is the real difference in cost of operating this machine compared to the venerable Jetranger? Fuel cost is obviously increased, but I am wondering what the real world difference of all else is as I am quite familiar with the old Jettie. Thanks Longbox, I will definitely message you.
