Vid - Crash filmed from inside
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 112
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From: UK
Vid - Crash filmed from inside
For your usual perusal and comment, a recently released vid of a crash on July 4th 2013, filmed from inside the cab:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6be_1421092675
As always, if it's an oldie, I'll delete
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6be_1421092675
As always, if it's an oldie, I'll delete
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
From: In the Alps
If you can read portugese:
.:: CENIPA ::.
In short: rapid vertical takeoff to avoid persons, causing loss of control.
This however doesn't really add up with the video footage, I can't see anybody on the ground in the video prior to the crash. At ~ 1:20, the low RPM is already going off briefly, that should have been already a warning that power is at the margin. To me, the whole thing looks more like the guy got irritated by hitting the ground hard and then overpitched instinctively.
Just my 2 cents anyway.
.:: CENIPA ::.
In short: rapid vertical takeoff to avoid persons, causing loss of control.
This however doesn't really add up with the video footage, I can't see anybody on the ground in the video prior to the crash. At ~ 1:20, the low RPM is already going off briefly, that should have been already a warning that power is at the margin. To me, the whole thing looks more like the guy got irritated by hitting the ground hard and then overpitched instinctively.
Just my 2 cents anyway.
Joined: Aug 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 83
From: Gold Coast, Australia
Helicopter crashes and leaves four people injured in Goiás
Helicopter crashes in Corumbá de Goiás (GO) and leaves four injured; accident happened after the aircraft, which left Cocalzinho (GO), losing altitude and fall in an area close to the city forum
A helicopter crashed in Corumbá city of Goiás (110 km from Goiânia), on Thursday (4), and left four people injured. The aircraft model Robinson R44, with PR-DCM prefix, was partially destroyed.
The accident happened at about 11 am, when the helicopter, which left the city of Cocalzinho (GO), lost altitude and crashed somewhere near the Corumba forum.
The causes of decline are being investigated by the Technical and Scientific Police and ANAC (National Civil Aviation Agency).
The injured were rescued by a fire department staff. The Olive Alexandre Dionisio pilot was injured in the left arm.
Among the passengers, Danilo Pereira de Abreu had bruise in his right leg and was taken to the Hospital Nossa Senhora da Penha, in Corumba.
Marksuel Carlos de Moura Reis and Marcelo Pedreira Pinheiro, who also were in the helicopter, only had minor injuries in the arms and hand.
Helicopter crashes in Corumbá de Goiás (GO) and leaves four injured; accident happened after the aircraft, which left Cocalzinho (GO), losing altitude and fall in an area close to the city forum
A helicopter crashed in Corumbá city of Goiás (110 km from Goiânia), on Thursday (4), and left four people injured. The aircraft model Robinson R44, with PR-DCM prefix, was partially destroyed.
The accident happened at about 11 am, when the helicopter, which left the city of Cocalzinho (GO), lost altitude and crashed somewhere near the Corumba forum.
The causes of decline are being investigated by the Technical and Scientific Police and ANAC (National Civil Aviation Agency).
The injured were rescued by a fire department staff. The Olive Alexandre Dionisio pilot was injured in the left arm.
Among the passengers, Danilo Pereira de Abreu had bruise in his right leg and was taken to the Hospital Nossa Senhora da Penha, in Corumba.
Marksuel Carlos de Moura Reis and Marcelo Pedreira Pinheiro, who also were in the helicopter, only had minor injuries in the arms and hand.
Report links here xxxxxxxxx
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 605
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From: Midlands
R44 crash
IMO he probably feared a dynamic rollover after a firm arrival on uneven ground and instinctively hauled the lever up.
He then found himself with insufficient power close to rooftops and, fearful of drifting into a roof as the thing rotated, kept the lever up throughout, lost TRA and, after several oscillations and ever-increasing control inputs, lost control of the thing.
It was a Raven 2. There were 4 people on board. The 2 guys in the front were pretty hefty, the cameraman wasn't but not sure about pax 4. the fuel gauges cant be seen. However, it was clearly a pretty hot July day. Also, am I right in seeing IRO 4200ft on the Altimeter? Maybe not...
My guess is that the thing was heavy - possibly overweight, hot and high also - as perhaps demonstrated by the LR horn on approach as translation was presumably lost and not, therefore due to Vortex Ring. Again, I couldn't see the VSI.
Finally, who was flying the thing? The guy in the LH seat had his hand on the controls and was therefore either an instructor or more experienced pilot. It beggars the question, who was 'in control' when it piled in? I wonder if they were 'fighting each other' on the controls? The duals were in for a reason presumably. The POH cautions are obvious.
Lucky guys. Hurrah for bladder tanks or sheer good fortune? No effort made whatsoever to keep the crowd away from what was a seriously unsafe crash site.
As a 1000hr+ R44 owner I believe it is important for us to study these accidents and learn from them.
My assumptions and opinions are purely that. A lot of questions remain unanswered.
HP
He then found himself with insufficient power close to rooftops and, fearful of drifting into a roof as the thing rotated, kept the lever up throughout, lost TRA and, after several oscillations and ever-increasing control inputs, lost control of the thing.
It was a Raven 2. There were 4 people on board. The 2 guys in the front were pretty hefty, the cameraman wasn't but not sure about pax 4. the fuel gauges cant be seen. However, it was clearly a pretty hot July day. Also, am I right in seeing IRO 4200ft on the Altimeter? Maybe not...
My guess is that the thing was heavy - possibly overweight, hot and high also - as perhaps demonstrated by the LR horn on approach as translation was presumably lost and not, therefore due to Vortex Ring. Again, I couldn't see the VSI.
Finally, who was flying the thing? The guy in the LH seat had his hand on the controls and was therefore either an instructor or more experienced pilot. It beggars the question, who was 'in control' when it piled in? I wonder if they were 'fighting each other' on the controls? The duals were in for a reason presumably. The POH cautions are obvious.
Lucky guys. Hurrah for bladder tanks or sheer good fortune? No effort made whatsoever to keep the crowd away from what was a seriously unsafe crash site.
As a 1000hr+ R44 owner I believe it is important for us to study these accidents and learn from them.
My assumptions and opinions are purely that. A lot of questions remain unanswered.
HP
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Joined: Nov 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,753
Likes: 65
From: Alles über die platz
Cant see the LHS left hand, but it appears that both front LHS & RHS had hands & feet on throughout the video, and both were wrestling with the controls after the initial 'landing' and up to the crash.
Very close to the building @1:14 just before they turned onto final approach heading!
Very close to the building @1:14 just before they turned onto final approach heading!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
From: Midlands
R44 crash
Having thought yet more about it....
What if the FS pax was green and the pilot hadn't briefed him properly on handling the controls?
The approach was made normally IRO 15 inches MAP yet the LR horn went off. When the landing was aborted and the lever yanked up - IMO to (correctly?) avert the risk a dynamic rollover - the horn blared throughout.
What if the pax hadn't been briefed to hold the throttle gently and allow it to spool?
It seems to fit i.e. slightly low on the approach, raise the lever in a tight grasp and the horn goes off despite low approach MAP.
The correlator relies on a gentle grip. Also, at high alts, it is less effective and throttle may need to be rolled on.
More conjecture from a hobby pilot. What do you skilled guys reckon?
HP
What if the FS pax was green and the pilot hadn't briefed him properly on handling the controls?
The approach was made normally IRO 15 inches MAP yet the LR horn went off. When the landing was aborted and the lever yanked up - IMO to (correctly?) avert the risk a dynamic rollover - the horn blared throughout.
What if the pax hadn't been briefed to hold the throttle gently and allow it to spool?
It seems to fit i.e. slightly low on the approach, raise the lever in a tight grasp and the horn goes off despite low approach MAP.
The correlator relies on a gentle grip. Also, at high alts, it is less effective and throttle may need to be rolled on.
More conjecture from a hobby pilot. What do you skilled guys reckon?
HP
