Jet A1 delivery and storage
Thread Starter
Jet A1 delivery and storage
Again sorry if this has been covered but i could not find any definitive rule stating what material the tank should be .
I have a 3000 lt aviation bowser . I cant get deliveries for such a small amount and it has to be a rigid lorry because of the lanes . I am thinking of putting a 5000 lt tank outside the back of the hangar and connecting it into my bowser ...making 8000 lt . Does it HAVE to be stainless or can it be mild steel ?
Also is there anyone up near Skipton , Preston , Leeds area who would share loads ???
I have to say i was quite surprised at how much water was in the bottom of my bowser when i drained it . About 75 lt of fuel left when the pump ran dry and i guess a full cup of water .....
I have a 3000 lt aviation bowser . I cant get deliveries for such a small amount and it has to be a rigid lorry because of the lanes . I am thinking of putting a 5000 lt tank outside the back of the hangar and connecting it into my bowser ...making 8000 lt . Does it HAVE to be stainless or can it be mild steel ?
Also is there anyone up near Skipton , Preston , Leeds area who would share loads ???
I have to say i was quite surprised at how much water was in the bottom of my bowser when i drained it . About 75 lt of fuel left when the pump ran dry and i guess a full cup of water .....
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another option.
you could consider using an IBC of stainless steel and just swapping them over as required. forklift on and off. oil companies have procedures in place for ensuring the QA on filling and transport.
They were around $6000 AU for 1000 litres with a special lowpoint drain.
They were around $6000 AU for 1000 litres with a special lowpoint drain.
Thread Starter
I have heard that the delivery drivers can sometimes refuse to fill plastic domestic tanks ......I will check with them if they are happy to fill plastic but many of the manufacturers specifically say they are NOT suitable for Jet A1 but not sure why .
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The old CAP434 went into much more detail for construction and materials.
I remember it saying that galvanised steel, copper and brass were all prohibited materials for aviation fuel tank components.
CAP748 as mentioned above is useful, it has a list of further reading that should clear up the plastic tank question.
I remember it saying that galvanised steel, copper and brass were all prohibited materials for aviation fuel tank components.
CAP748 as mentioned above is useful, it has a list of further reading that should clear up the plastic tank question.
Thread Starter
wasted 30 mins of my life trawling through the usual CAA gibberish ...taking a whole page to say what could be said plainly in one sentence ....and then putting it in such a way that your still not quite sure ..............
nothing regarding the type or material for the tank that i can see .
nothing regarding the type or material for the tank that i can see .
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How long is the juice staying in the tank, or better, how much do you use in a year.
Jet fuel with AL48 can be used up to 6 month, without AL48 you can use it 12 month, but then you have to use Prist at low temperatures.
Maybe it's easier to tow the bowser to the nearest airport and get it filled there.
Jet fuel with AL48 can be used up to 6 month, without AL48 you can use it 12 month, but then you have to use Prist at low temperatures.
Maybe it's easier to tow the bowser to the nearest airport and get it filled there.
Thread Starter
I never use AL48 so not a problem . I'm not actually worried about the fuel as over the years I've used everything from 45 gallon drums filtered through stockings and old water drums ( in Egypt ) with no problems !!!
I am purely ( unusual for me ) trying to be slightly legal for once ......
I know a plastic tank will work just fine .... But is it legal ???
I am purely ( unusual for me ) trying to be slightly legal for once ......
I know a plastic tank will work just fine .... But is it legal ???
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wasted 30 mins of my life trawling through the usual CAA gibberish
You can lead a horse to water..... etc. Get that chip off your shoulder Nige, we're trying to help.
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TRC - true, but CAP 437 Chap 7 related to offshore, not on-shore, and does not provide any legal approval of fuel systems unfortunately.
It states: The contents of this chapter are intended as general advice/best practice.
Which is fine, but most GA airports I've visitied dont even comply with that 'best practice' even if it were for on-shore.
It states: The contents of this chapter are intended as general advice/best practice.
Which is fine, but most GA airports I've visitied dont even comply with that 'best practice' even if it were for on-shore.
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Jet A1 delivery and storage
I had 20,000 litres delivered 2 weeks ago especially as this new extra 56 p per litre tax for private use that starts in September I thought I better get ready and bought a large 180,00 litre bowser
Nigel if you want to tow your bowser to York you can have fill it (buy)
Some suppliers won't fill plastic tanks some will all depends who you use I may be able to help there but not in writing here
Nigel if you want to tow your bowser to York you can have fill it (buy)
Some suppliers won't fill plastic tanks some will all depends who you use I may be able to help there but not in writing here
Thread Starter
TRC ........ Get that chip off your shoulder Nige, we're trying to help.
Was that really necessary ?? Where on earth do chips on shoulders come from ....???? I presume you know the answer and have the correct fuel storage for your Agusta 109 I presume
Well instead of being smug and giving clues ....why not just tell us all ??!!!
I thank you for your help , really , but it actually wasn't helpful . In amongst the CAA drivel there may well be something written in plain English that says ....." jet A1 should be in X type of tank " . That would help . Even I could understand that . It's really just as if they actually want us to break their " hidden" rules !!! That's why I had such joy watching the expression on the CAA inspectors face when I was ramp checked the other day landing with a load of clients , I mean friends ,and admitted that I had never done a rating on my 109 and in fact hadn't even done ANY twin rating !!! Pathetic ...but I loved it .
Was that really necessary ?? Where on earth do chips on shoulders come from ....???? I presume you know the answer and have the correct fuel storage for your Agusta 109 I presume
Well instead of being smug and giving clues ....why not just tell us all ??!!!I thank you for your help , really , but it actually wasn't helpful . In amongst the CAA drivel there may well be something written in plain English that says ....." jet A1 should be in X type of tank " . That would help . Even I could understand that . It's really just as if they actually want us to break their " hidden" rules !!! That's why I had such joy watching the expression on the CAA inspectors face when I was ramp checked the other day landing with a load of clients , I mean friends ,and admitted that I had never done a rating on my 109 and in fact hadn't even done ANY twin rating !!! Pathetic ...but I loved it .
Thread Starter
MD .... Sorry I am very badly informed as always .... What 56p tax per litre ?
I was aware that vat is 20% now for private flights but that's all .
Thank you for the kind offer but I think 3000 litres on a trailer probably would require the SAS and fire brigade to follow me !!
I was aware that vat is 20% now for private flights but that's all .
Thank you for the kind offer but I think 3000 litres on a trailer probably would require the SAS and fire brigade to follow me !!
The CAA document is a recommendation only !!! Usually a tank is stainless steel or aluminium. However Jet A1 is kerosene which from it comes diesel, heating oil jet a1, all of which can be stored in suitable container. So heating oil storage is plastic, diesel in a site bowser is usually mild steel with a painted lining or more common now a polypop tank with a mild steel bund !
Jet A1 into IBC
From experience of using IBC's for any fuel the issue is the delivery driver doing a fill---the fill neck on an IBC is very different to that on a heating tank and a retail fuel storage tank --with the IBC the delivery nozzle has to be changed so it open fills rather than on a coupling--it has to be pumped in slower as the air needs to vent which means it takes longer....its the same issue if you want to fill 205L drums-and there would be the arguement that water can get in during the fill if it is raining----but if if the IBC is positioned with the bottom tap on the lower side of a slope that is where the water and any crud will fall out.....
Last edited by Dave Sharpe; 29th Apr 2014 at 15:00. Reason: Spelling-punctuation!!
Just to add that Jet A1 is Kerosene so what you are storing it in as long as it is designed to store diesel/heating oil then there should be no problem, but put an aviation style filter system on it and do water sampling. Years ago one of my customers purchased a 1000 ltr bowser form a well known supplier. He cornered the salesmen about the difference in price between aviation and ordinary diesel ( 100%) the answer was they are the same but with a different filter and a bonding reel. Nice way of increasing the margin ( about £ 2000 for filter and bonding reel !!!)
