BK117 crash Baltic Sea
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BK117 crash Baltic Sea
Sad news!
Yesterday evening a BK117 of DRF Luftrettung crashed into the sea near the island of Ruegen/Germany while on a training mission ( ship winching ) 2 pilots were rescued by the participating ship, one of him died. The two medical passengers were missed but later on found dead by rescue divers. RIP
Vor der Küste von Mecklenburg-Vorpommern - Hubschrauber-Absturz! Drei Tote! - News Inland - Bild.de
skadi
Yesterday evening a BK117 of DRF Luftrettung crashed into the sea near the island of Ruegen/Germany while on a training mission ( ship winching ) 2 pilots were rescued by the participating ship, one of him died. The two medical passengers were missed but later on found dead by rescue divers. RIP
Vor der Küste von Mecklenburg-Vorpommern - Hubschrauber-Absturz! Drei Tote! - News Inland - Bild.de
skadi
Last edited by skadi; 1st Mar 2014 at 06:16.
Gathering info:
Bergung nach Hubschrauberabsturz in Ostsee | NDR.de - Regional - Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
..suddenly ditched while on approach to vessel upon which a docter should have been dispatched via winch. The whole thing was an emergency exercise.
Hubschrauber-Absturz: "Wir stehen vor einem Rätsel" | STERN.DE
one pilot,the doctor and the medical assistant are dead. The sea at the location of the accident has a depth of 21ft.
It was a weekly training exercise. The doctor has been lowered onto the ship and brought up again twiche, then during departure the helicopter ditched at 2km distince from the ship.
both pilot were experiences (9500h resp. 7000h incl. OffShore work)
Tödlicher Einsatz über der Ostsee: Hubschrauber versinkt im Meer - n-tv.de
4°C water temp, only on of the pilot survived. Both managed to get out of the helicopter, one of them died from severe injuries.
but no clues as to the cause of the accident.
edit:
Maschine wird geborgen: Drei Tote bei Hubschrauber-Absturz in der Ostsee - Aus aller Welt - FOCUS Online - Nachrichten
According to eyewittness reports the helicopter ditched on his "thrid approach attempt"
Vor der Küste Mecklenburg-Vorpommerns: Drei Tote bei Hubschrauberabsturz - Unglücke - FAZ
ditched app. 4km east of Darßer Ort (village?) in the vincinity of the wind park Baltic 1. Againg eyewitnesses reporting "thrid approach attempt".
"..specially equipped for off shore service.." here are the floats:Tödlicher Hubschrauber-Absturz gibt Rätsel auf | shz.de
amazing how much grossly contradicting information one can find in the press.
Bergung nach Hubschrauberabsturz in Ostsee | NDR.de - Regional - Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
..suddenly ditched while on approach to vessel upon which a docter should have been dispatched via winch. The whole thing was an emergency exercise.
Hubschrauber-Absturz: "Wir stehen vor einem Rätsel" | STERN.DE
one pilot,the doctor and the medical assistant are dead. The sea at the location of the accident has a depth of 21ft.
It was a weekly training exercise. The doctor has been lowered onto the ship and brought up again twiche, then during departure the helicopter ditched at 2km distince from the ship.
both pilot were experiences (9500h resp. 7000h incl. OffShore work)
Tödlicher Einsatz über der Ostsee: Hubschrauber versinkt im Meer - n-tv.de
4°C water temp, only on of the pilot survived. Both managed to get out of the helicopter, one of them died from severe injuries.
but no clues as to the cause of the accident.
edit:
Maschine wird geborgen: Drei Tote bei Hubschrauber-Absturz in der Ostsee - Aus aller Welt - FOCUS Online - Nachrichten
According to eyewittness reports the helicopter ditched on his "thrid approach attempt"
Vor der Küste Mecklenburg-Vorpommerns: Drei Tote bei Hubschrauberabsturz - Unglücke - FAZ
ditched app. 4km east of Darßer Ort (village?) in the vincinity of the wind park Baltic 1. Againg eyewitnesses reporting "thrid approach attempt".
"..specially equipped for off shore service.." here are the floats:Tödlicher Hubschrauber-Absturz gibt Rätsel auf | shz.de
amazing how much grossly contradicting information one can find in the press.
Last edited by Reely340; 1st Mar 2014 at 15:22.
If you think floats and two pilots makes a hems helicopter a real maritime SAR... well **** happens.
The list is too long, it's too late, and AFAIK may be the crash has nothing to do with the differences and they just run out of fuel...
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A loss of life is a tragedy for the family, friends, and coworkers of the deceased...my sincerest condolences.
I guess Aser you seem to have more value of your opinion than others.
I guess Aser you seem to have more value of your opinion than others.
I am also struggling to see the difference. BK117 might not be the most stable platform for offshore rescue, but the basics look right.
-Two qualified offshore experienced pilots (IFR and night experience is not mentioned in the articles?)
-Twin engined, offshore equipped machine.
Not sure what is better...
-Knowing that other/more southerly countries spend big bucks for modern/large SAR machines and then dont spend any money keeping their crews qualified and in good currency for the mission.
-Knowing that Germany is using older/smaller aircrafts for the same job, but then spends more money to keep the crews in frequent training for the daily job.
-Two qualified offshore experienced pilots (IFR and night experience is not mentioned in the articles?)
-Twin engined, offshore equipped machine.
Not sure what is better...
-Knowing that other/more southerly countries spend big bucks for modern/large SAR machines and then dont spend any money keeping their crews qualified and in good currency for the mission.
-Knowing that Germany is using older/smaller aircrafts for the same job, but then spends more money to keep the crews in frequent training for the daily job.
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The difference is like night and day...
If you think floats and two pilots makes a hems helicopter a real maritime SAR... well **** happens.
If you think floats and two pilots makes a hems helicopter a real maritime SAR... well **** happens.
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On one of the German News Channels a spokesman of the participating "DGzRS" (German Maritime Search and Rescue Service) said that the exercise itself was over and that the helicopter circled the rescue cruiser twice and than suddenly lost altitude and contacted the water.
Aser, I understand that you yourself are in the lucky position to fly a "real maritime SAR" helicopter. That's good for you and your crew and I know that for the kind of operation you guys do you have the right choice of helicopter.
However in this particular case we are not talking about flying over the Atlantic coast at night in heavy thunderstorms at beaufort 10+. I wouldn't do that in a BK117 either.
But for the kind of work that is done by the DRF over the Baltic Sea the BK is more than sufficient. As mentioned before it's "only" about "providing HEMS services to offshore wind farms".
Aser, I understand that you yourself are in the lucky position to fly a "real maritime SAR" helicopter. That's good for you and your crew and I know that for the kind of operation you guys do you have the right choice of helicopter.
However in this particular case we are not talking about flying over the Atlantic coast at night in heavy thunderstorms at beaufort 10+. I wouldn't do that in a BK117 either.
But for the kind of work that is done by the DRF over the Baltic Sea the BK is more than sufficient. As mentioned before it's "only" about "providing HEMS services to offshore wind farms".
Ok, everybody calm down.
The first post suggested a ship winching at night, so in my opinion that should be a job for German Navy or whoever is dedicated to maritime SAR over there.
I'm not attacking Germany, your friends or the good old Bk-177.
I don't fly SAR any more and I'm happy because even flying an AW139, the bad company safety culture and management, the lack of SOPs, training, regulations etc. caused a deadly crash.
My opinion is based on my hems,sar and offshore experience and it's like the ass, "everybody has one".
Best regards
Aser
The first post suggested a ship winching at night, so in my opinion that should be a job for German Navy or whoever is dedicated to maritime SAR over there.
I'm not attacking Germany, your friends or the good old Bk-177.
I don't fly SAR any more and I'm happy because even flying an AW139, the bad company safety culture and management, the lack of SOPs, training, regulations etc. caused a deadly crash.
My opinion is based on my hems,sar and offshore experience and it's like the ass, "everybody has one".
Best regards
Aser
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The wreckage is salvaged:
Hubschrauber-Wrack wird in Rostock untersucht | NDR.de - Regional - Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
Picture 2 shows the chopper looking relatively intact below the yellow crane. (the pic isn´t that good...)
The md and assistant have been found dead in the wreck.
DRF has a lot of former military guys with a very good traning background, at least thats what the DRF guys at my homebase tell me. Their operation is said to be very professional and from the 'outside' it ceratinly looks like it is.
Time again to say "hats off" and thank you chopper guys, SAR/HEMS/Military/etc, whom fly often in hazardous conditions to help and rescue.
Hubschrauber-Wrack wird in Rostock untersucht | NDR.de - Regional - Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
Picture 2 shows the chopper looking relatively intact below the yellow crane. (the pic isn´t that good...)
The md and assistant have been found dead in the wreck.
DRF has a lot of former military guys with a very good traning background, at least thats what the DRF guys at my homebase tell me. Their operation is said to be very professional and from the 'outside' it ceratinly looks like it is.
Time again to say "hats off" and thank you chopper guys, SAR/HEMS/Military/etc, whom fly often in hazardous conditions to help and rescue.
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More pics of the wreck. The salvage was difficult, because the helicopter rested upside down on the seafloor and had to be turned prior lifting.
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skadi
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skadi
Last edited by skadi; 2nd Mar 2014 at 13:51.
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Press being all over the place in their assumptions 
Specialists from the federal air accident investigatin board started their investigation after yesterdays fatal helicopter crash. First findings show that the floats on the skids did not deploy automatically; they are supposed to dampen the impact in case of a crash similar to an airbag in a car.
German media now reports that floats can only deployed manually, but weren't; heli itself sustained little to no damage except bent rotor blades. Waiting for medical reports at this time.
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RIP :-(
My condolences for the families. :-(
As Aser said, a SAR platform for night operations must be inherent stable.
BK177 is not the best for that job...
I have done both Lim-SAR and All Weather SAR and I know how hard is a sailing vessel hoist without autohover at night.
Bk's rigid rotor is a handicap for that kind of operation.
Not every helicopter is suitable for every job...
As Aser said, a SAR platform for night operations must be inherent stable.
BK177 is not the best for that job...
I have done both Lim-SAR and All Weather SAR and I know how hard is a sailing vessel hoist without autohover at night.
Bk's rigid rotor is a handicap for that kind of operation.
Not every helicopter is suitable for every job...
The thing is, that according to most of the reports so far, the crash happened after the hoisting exercise during circling the training area. Only a couple of miles from the shore (shore actually in visible sight even) in good night VMC conditions.
That AW139 crash Aser is reffering to, was in very similar similar conditions (close to shore, night, good weather, after the exercise going home) if I recall correctly.
Actual SAR in Germany is still in military hands and done by MK41 Seakings AFAIK.
That AW139 crash Aser is reffering to, was in very similar similar conditions (close to shore, night, good weather, after the exercise going home) if I recall correctly.
Actual SAR in Germany is still in military hands and done by MK41 Seakings AFAIK.
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@cfr:
Autohover is not required for night winchings. The kraut Sea King actually never uses the Aux Hover for winchings, only during transition training.
However I do agree that a slightly bigger platform should make nite ops over the sea a bit easier.
@eivissa:
You are correct, SAR is provided by the Sea King Mk 41 alone.
The DRF and a few other operators in the North Sea are doing HEMS only.
Some of them only during daylight.
Tom
Autohover is not required for night winchings. The kraut Sea King actually never uses the Aux Hover for winchings, only during transition training.
However I do agree that a slightly bigger platform should make nite ops over the sea a bit easier.
@eivissa:
You are correct, SAR is provided by the Sea King Mk 41 alone.
The DRF and a few other operators in the North Sea are doing HEMS only.
Some of them only during daylight.
Tom