R44 Ownership in the UK
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: London
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
R44 Ownership in the UK
I wonder if anyone can advise on the realistic cost of ownership of an R44 in the UK.
I am looking to purchase an R44 to fly c. 50 hours / year and then lease to a local operator to use up the rest of the annual hours. I know the general consensus is never to lease to a school if you don't have to because of the risk of damage not tied to any incidents leading to insurance not paying out but I am still interested in getting a picture of the costs.
I have searched all over but not found any recent posts on the subject so wonder if someone out there might be able to share some hard learned lessons!
I guess I am looking to put together a model for the costs of ownership but the information out there is either out of date, from another country or incomplete. Also if anyone has leased an r44 to a uk school so can advise on lease rates and hours flown that would also be really interesting.
Olly
I am looking to purchase an R44 to fly c. 50 hours / year and then lease to a local operator to use up the rest of the annual hours. I know the general consensus is never to lease to a school if you don't have to because of the risk of damage not tied to any incidents leading to insurance not paying out but I am still interested in getting a picture of the costs.
I have searched all over but not found any recent posts on the subject so wonder if someone out there might be able to share some hard learned lessons!
I guess I am looking to put together a model for the costs of ownership but the information out there is either out of date, from another country or incomplete. Also if anyone has leased an r44 to a uk school so can advise on lease rates and hours flown that would also be really interesting.
Olly
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under a grey cloud
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Olly for 50hrs a year honestly don't bother. Insurance alone if insured for 'club' use (required for training) is going to be around £15k for a newish R44, thats £300/hr at 50hrs/year, add fuel, scheduled maintenance, unscheduled maintenance, hangarage, depreciation etc and you'd be paying far more than the rental costs and you take on a lot more hassle. I used to own one. Even after leasing to a busy school it will not make a profit or cover it's costs. I found that my machine made a cash loss of around £2k/month when factoring in servicing, insurance and rental income. Thats before depreciation and my own cost of fuel for private usage.
You'd be much better off joining a private syndicate and splitting those costs between 3-5 people for the perceived usage your talking about.
You'd be much better off joining a private syndicate and splitting those costs between 3-5 people for the perceived usage your talking about.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: London
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the comments which I totally take on board. I haven't come across any syndicates around the Redhill area yet but will keep asking around.
I would still be really interested if anyone would like share their true costs of ownership as the other option I have been considering is starting a syndicate with some others but need to understand the numbers. Insurance, Finance etc I am clearer on but the maintenance costs that I need a steer on. As I understand it there are routine 50 hour, 100 hour etc. but haven't got the first idea of the costs of these or even what engineer labour rates in the uk are.
I would still be really interested if anyone would like share their true costs of ownership as the other option I have been considering is starting a syndicate with some others but need to understand the numbers. Insurance, Finance etc I am clearer on but the maintenance costs that I need a steer on. As I understand it there are routine 50 hour, 100 hour etc. but haven't got the first idea of the costs of these or even what engineer labour rates in the uk are.
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under a grey cloud
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If all is as scheduled and no parts need extra work or replacing:
Annual items £3-4k
100Hr Items £1.7-2k
50Hr £1k
I had a well cared for aircraft from new, always hangared, and a number of unscheduled items each year over my ownership (aux fuel pump, aux fuel pump, hydraulic servos, pitch links, crankcase seals, sprag clutch, oh yeah.... aux fuel pump
) which varied between £1-7k each to replace.
Ownership can be fun but not generally economically worthwhile especially at 50hrs/year. Start a syndicate - the schools don't like them particularly as it eats away at their SFH clients and profits, but as an owner it makes far more sense...
Annual items £3-4k
100Hr Items £1.7-2k
50Hr £1k
I had a well cared for aircraft from new, always hangared, and a number of unscheduled items each year over my ownership (aux fuel pump, aux fuel pump, hydraulic servos, pitch links, crankcase seals, sprag clutch, oh yeah.... aux fuel pump
) which varied between £1-7k each to replace. Ownership can be fun but not generally economically worthwhile especially at 50hrs/year. Start a syndicate - the schools don't like them particularly as it eats away at their SFH clients and profits, but as an owner it makes far more sense...
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: England & Scotland
Age: 63
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nothing about helicopter ownership is cheap so make sure you have the funds to commit before heading down the option of purchase.
The worst thing to drive up cost is to keep a machine and flying low hours, as there is a fixed time / hours rebuild for the R44.
Syndicates can help reduce the cost to you to an extent, as stated.
The cheapest 'cost' (or only possibility of profit) comes from high-hours dry-lease to someone who does not break or bend 'your precious'. If you can get a good hourly rate AND lots of hours then the dilution of fixed cost over higher hours leads to the cheapest cost per hour; but you need both of those and to be luck in avoiding other unscheduled breakdowns. Think of +20hrs dry-lease / month if this is going to work out. The school will give you an idea of how many hours they are likely to use but there are no guarantees! Training will bring lots of hours but more risk of mechanical issues than passenger charter work hence the devil is in the detail of what you agree, and with whom.
For low-annual hour use it could be more economic to buy a good R44 that has been heavily used, so has years but not flight hours left. A machine with 150hrs flight but 4 years remaining before overhaul might be attractive. There is the cost of the rebuild to save-up for, but selling straight after rebuild and replacing it with another low hours / higher years machine might be an option. You still need to finance the rebuild.
The worst thing to drive up cost is to keep a machine and flying low hours, as there is a fixed time / hours rebuild for the R44.
Syndicates can help reduce the cost to you to an extent, as stated.
The cheapest 'cost' (or only possibility of profit) comes from high-hours dry-lease to someone who does not break or bend 'your precious'. If you can get a good hourly rate AND lots of hours then the dilution of fixed cost over higher hours leads to the cheapest cost per hour; but you need both of those and to be luck in avoiding other unscheduled breakdowns. Think of +20hrs dry-lease / month if this is going to work out. The school will give you an idea of how many hours they are likely to use but there are no guarantees! Training will bring lots of hours but more risk of mechanical issues than passenger charter work hence the devil is in the detail of what you agree, and with whom.
For low-annual hour use it could be more economic to buy a good R44 that has been heavily used, so has years but not flight hours left. A machine with 150hrs flight but 4 years remaining before overhaul might be attractive. There is the cost of the rebuild to save-up for, but selling straight after rebuild and replacing it with another low hours / higher years machine might be an option. You still need to finance the rebuild.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Wrong Town
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Be careful. There are two proposed ADs for the R44 which will both be expensive. EASA has PAD for the fuel tanks to be of the bladder variety and the FAA has a proposed AD for the blades to be changed to the latest design. The tank change AD has to be done within 2 years the blades replaced within 5.
Tank change circa £10K
Blade change circa £40K
Tank change circa £10K
Blade change circa £40K
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I owned one but its not a economically sensible option but then whats sensible about helicopters! The trouble with an R44 is you are only really renting it from Frank anyway, once you add depreciation and rebuild costs he is the only one making money from the machine. For 50 hours a year it might be actually cheaper to get a jet ranger.
Remember if it ĵcks, floats or flys its cheaper to pay by the hour!
Remember if it ĵcks, floats or flys its cheaper to pay by the hour!
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under a grey cloud
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Real Cost of Helicopter Ownership | An Eclectic Mind An article written in the US from which you can draw some of your own conclusions, just replace dollars directly with pounds for the UK and your not too far out...
